Liquidator Questions

[smuggs]

I installed my 8 gal LQ a couple weeks ago and have been, overall, happy with it. I have been using 12.5% chlorine in it. I have noticed a couple of things that I would like to ask the "LQ Experts" about....

1) on the suction side, from the flow meter to the pump, there is a white film that has coated the tubing. the white film looks a lot like sun tan lotion. any idea what that coul be from?

2) with the flow control valve on high, the maximum flow that i have been able to achieve is a little over 3. with the sun we have been getting over the last few days, i don't seem to be getting enough chlorine throughput as my measurement this evening was at about 2.5ppm FC/TC with a CYA of 50. i just removed the flowcontrol valve this evening as a test and the flow meter shows a solid "4". perhaps this is all i need to do. however, i would be interested in other ideas of how i could increase the flow rate while leaving the flow control valve in place. for example, can i add a "Y" adapter and add another connection to my suction line to increase the flow rate? please note that my pump is about 1-2 feet below the water line.

3) as noted above, my CYA is at 50. should i increase that to the 60-80 recommended in the owners manual?

4) lastly, i believe that i should be using the "bleach" FC range recommendations from Jason's poolcalculator rather than the SWG level recommendations....is this correct?


thanks again for all of the invaluable advice. this forum has truly made it much easier for me to understand my pool. i'd hate to think what things might look like now or later this season without TFP!

 

[keithw]

I will try to answer them.

1. Are you sure it's a film? Does it come off when you wipe it as if with a pipe cleaner? Because it is probably just discoloration from the Chlorine. My hose became discolored in spots (whitish) shortly after I installed the Liquidator. There is another thread around here where someone mentioned that there is a higher end tubing that you can use in lieu of the tubing that comes with the Liquidator. I haven't done it because in spite of the discoloration, the tubing on mine seems to be in good shape still. I am going to see how long it takes to completely degrade. I am only using bleach and you are using 12.5% so yours might degrade at a higher rate.

2. The only known ways to increase the flow rate are to remove the check valves or optimize the suction on the pump side. If your suction (skimmer line) is very short, then you might not be creating enough suction to pull the liquid out of the Liquidator. Restricting the flow might increase the suction in this instance. Removing the check valves is an easier solution. And it doesn't really matter if you pump is below water level. What is important is the the top of the Liquidator be above water level. As long as it is you can remove the check valves to increase flow.

3. No don't increase CYA. 50 is just fine. You could even go a tad lower.

4. Correct. You should be at a CL of 5.7 down to 3.7.

 

[Sabot]

I can't add much for Keith has covered it very well. I would wait to hear from Mark & Jason before drilling a new tap. I have similar issues on a slightly different project with a low flow rate. Instead of drilling a new tap on the suction side, I am going to use the drain plug on the pump. Using a "Y" and a pair of control valves. I would like to know: 1) If two suctions are better then one 2) If the suction is better via the pump drain vs. tap.

I have installed Tygon tubing on mine, it's very expensive. It's very flexible which can cause the line to pop off from the tank if it's not secured just right. Once installed, it's best to be left alone. The film is the tubing breaking down from the chlorine as Keith mentioned. I wish I could find an exact replacement for the stock tubing for its wall thickness was perfect for the application. Tygon is great for being resistant to chlorine and UV.

I have let my CYA go down into the 40's. For the last 3 weeks of summer weather, I have been burning the same amount of chlorine a week (364 ounce or 2.843 75 gallon). I need to bump it up a bit.

 

[JasonLion]

Two suctions should be ever so slightly better than one. In effect you are increasing the diameter of the tube. Normally there wouldn't be any point to this but in extreme cases it might help just a little.

The suction should be better at the pump drain plug, but again the difference will normally be very small.

 

[joenj]

I installed my 8 gal LQ a couple weeks ago and have been, overall, happy with it. I have been using 12.5% chlorine in it. I have noticed a couple of things that I would like to ask the "LQ Experts" about....

1) on the suction side, from the flow meter to the pump, there is a white film that has coated the tubing. the white film looks a lot like sun tan lotion. any idea what that coul be from?

2) with the flow control valve on high, the maximum flow that i have been able to achieve is a little over 3. with the sun we have been getting over the last few days, i don't seem to be getting enough chlorine throughput as my measurement this evening was at about 2.5ppm FC/TC with a CYA of 50. i just removed the flowcontrol valve this evening as a test and the flow meter shows a solid "4". perhaps this is all i need to do. however, i would be interested in other ideas of how i could increase the flow rate while leaving the flow control valve in place. for example, can i add a "Y" adapter and add another connection to my suction line to increase the flow rate? please note that my pump is about 1-2 feet below the water line.

1) Is your pressure/fill connected before the filter? There was some talk about that, from others, in a previous topic. This would send unfiltered water to the LQ. Then the bleach in the LQ would burn it up, float it up and out it goes.
I am using Sparkle's 5 gal 12.5% like you. My lines are all just a little cloudy. Nothing different on the suction line.

2) Do you have the check valves installed? I just have the one on the inlet/pressure side and can get to 4 on the meter. I was also getting little bubbles in the flow meter, which were caused from air leaking in from the meter's fittings. Teflon paste corrected that.

 

[SeanB]

When are you running your pump? If your run time is mostly during the day, you may just need to get the chlorine in at night.

This seems to have made the difference on my dad's LQ.

 

[duraleigh]

Adding to Sean's post, how long are you running the pump? Obviously increasing your pump run time increases the Cl in your pool

 

[smuggs]

Let me see if I can answer everyone's follow up questions (thanks for all of the follow up!)

Keithw - the white color does appear to be a film as it can be removed with a q-tip. As for the suction line, it is probably 25+ feet from the nearest skimmer to the pump. I don't have a way to reduce the suction from the skimmer that I know of...just a valve that controls the suction from the pool vs. Spa. The top of the LQ is just below the pool level. Perhaps I can try to put it up on a couple cinder blocks...would have to dump a lot of water first...too heavy.

Joe - my pressure side line is connected just after the filter. I'm using the same line that the PB used for the Rainbow offline chlorinator. I'm not quite ready to drill another hole in my pipes unless I need to. Both check valves are in place right now as I am thinking that I will get backflow due to the pump level relative to the pool.

Sean/Dave - I'm running the pump about 10 hours/day from 10am to 8pm.

I'm going to check my levels again tonight to see if removing the flow control does what I need. I'm also going to look to clean the gook out of the lines and flow meter to see if that makes a difference.

 

[Sabot]

I connected a "T" to the suction side and connected another line to the pump's drain valve. As Jason stated, it made a VERY SMALL differance. I do like having the suction tap directly on the pump drain plug. One less hole to drill and worry about winterizing.

 

[mikemedic]

Ok since I am a fairly new LQ user. I have the 8 gallon model.
I can get my to "4" if the filters been backwashed recently and my psi is on 10-12. My problem lately is after backwashing my psi wants to run on 14. If the PSI goes up 2 psi i loose about 1 level on the LQ. So I can Bwash set it to 3.5 and poof two days later if my psi goes up 2 psi my LQ goes down to 2.5 therefore reducing the chlorine input.

Any thoughts? and why when I first opened I backwash and could get my psi down to 10-11 but not I backwash the same way and can only go to 13-14? I have a hayward sand filter I believe model 244t. Why sometimes when I backwash i can get my psi at 11 and sometimes it only goes down to 13 after the backwash. I always backwash till water is clear, run the rinse, the back over to filter. this is the third year for the sand

I am getting bubbles at the flow meter and the tubing after the flow meter, would teflon tape work or do they make paste?

And one more....Will I get a higher concentration of bleach feeding thru if I add 8 gallons at once because I only have been adding 4 gallons at a time.

Also as promised here is the number I use to call tech support at HASA for the LG
818-468-9272 His name is Rick Sabo and this is his cell phone #, this is the number HASA told me to call

 

[joenj]

I am getting bubbles at the flow meter and the tubing after the flow meter, would teflon tape work or do they make paste?

And one more....Will I get a higher concentration of bleach feeding thru if I add 8 gallons at once because I only have been adding 4 gallons at a time.

I needed to use the paste which cleared the bubbles.

I believe you would get a higher concentration with 8 gallons.

 

[smuggs]

so, after getting home tonight and checking the my FC level, i made some other adjustments. I found my FC level to be at 2ppm with no CC. I then went over to the equipment pad and found that the flow meter was on its side (i didn't have it attached to anything since I made my last adjustment pretty quickly and didn't have enough tubing available to locate the meter to a place where I could keep it upright...I suspect this caused my drop in FC as the water could not flow through properly.)

I then tested my suction by removing the tube from the check valve near the pump. As long as I kept the end of the tube about 1ft about the pump, I would get pretty consistent suction. When lowering the tube, I had water squirting out followed by suction in a generally consistent pattern. So, I now trying this with no flow control valve and no check valve (the flow meter is about 1ft above the pump, so I'm pretty confident that I will not have any backflow from the suction line into the flow meter.

After doing this, I tested my water coming from my sheer descent. It measured 4ppm. To be honest, I'm a little surprised that it didn't measure higher as I am using 12.5% chlorine that I just picked up this weekend.

 

[smuggs]

Finally got around to checking my FC levels after what ended up being a couple days of running the LQ with now flow control or check valve....verdict is....TOO much CL. My FC level is 10 with CC of 0.5 (just had a very heavy rain today). I decided to put a different flow control valve on that I picked up from the orange big box hardware store. This one has less of a restriction than the one from HASA, so I can get it to 5 if needed. I've left the check valve off.

 

[mikemedic]

I would like to buy one of those.
What were the specs? I would have to go to the other big box store.

I dont know the diameter of the hose off the top of my head.

Thanks

Mike

 

[Water_man]

I was also getting little bubbles in the flow meter, which were caused from air leaking in from the meter's fittings. Teflon paste corrected that.

What is "Teflon paste"? Did you mean Teflon tape?
TIA
Mike

 

[pooltime]

I have been running for a few weeks with the 8gal liquidator. Due to a somewhat higher CYA value I need to maintain my FC around 8-10 or so. Even with the liquidator I am adding 2 96oz jugs every 3 days or so depending on swimmers and weather. I was hoping to automate that process through the use of the liquidator.

With both check valves removed and the flow control all the way open I am not able to get above 3 on the meter.

Doing some fiddling this weekend I found that if I push the shut-off float on the fill side down to allow more water into the tank, once it fills higher I am able to get up to 5, however this doesn't last very long as the water level eventually levels itself out where it had been.

Before I go about modifing the float, does anyone have any other suggestions for me?

Thanks!
Eric

 

[chrisexv6]

FWIW, last night I removed the check valve on the outlet side of the LQ (I had already removed the inlet check valve a couple weeks ago when I heard it was "buzzing"). It turns out the outlet side check valve was also "buzzing" during use.

Flow went from 3/3.5 to 4.0. So it made some difference. Also noteworthy is that I tried to blow into the check valves, and the only way I could get them to open was to blow in a burst of air. If I tried to keep a constant breath of air thru it, it wouldnt open. Im wondering if something might be up with my check valves? In my case its not too important, the LQ is *much* higher than water level.

 

[smuggs]

are you still using the flow control valve that came with the LQ? If so, look to pick up a quick connect 3/8" o.d. flow control valve from your local big box hardware store (orange or blue....both carry them). that's what I did and it helped increase the flow. as a point of reference, I have a flow of about 4 and use 12.5% chlorine. I was having some issues with keeping the levels up, particularly when we had very strong sun and high temperatures for several days along with heavy usage. So, I reconnected the old puck chlorinator. at this point I have the LQ running with a level of "4" and the puck chlorinator at just under "1" (my CYA is 40 and I am replacing about an inch of water/week due to evaporation and splashout, so i'm not really concerned about my CYA level getting out of control since i'm replacing water regularly and the flow level is so very low.) As of last night, my FC was 6 (with CYA of 40, I should be between 3 & 7, so I lowered the LQ to 3 and the chlorinator to 1/2). One other thing I noticed from using the LQ is that my PH increases more than I thought, so I am hoping the acidic qualities of the pucks will help manage that a little bit......it's all just a big science experiment.

 

[chrisexv6]

Yep, still have the flow meter inline.

FWIW, I was able to keep my FC at around 1.5 or 2.0 depending on weather. My pool gets full sun from 7AM to 7PM every day. When it got REALLY hot here, the FC dropped from about 4.0 to 1.0. Lately its been partly cloudy and sunny on alternate days, but definitely not as much heat. FC now steady at 1.5 to 2.0. My CYA is very low though, maybe 20 if Im lucky (currently adding more). Would be nice to know exactly how much is getting into the pool, and how much Im losing because of my low CYA. Currently aiming for a CYA level of 40 or so, sine Ive added "the sock" to disperse it, Ive noticed a slow increase of the amount of FC that is staying in the pool. I only test once a day, but I test around the same time to give me some idea of how the pool is reacting in a 24 hour period.

This was all with the flow meter showing 3.0-3.5, using 6% bleach and running the filter 9 hours/day (2 shifts, 6 hour and 3 hour). Im going to be converting to 12.5% bleach shortly just for convenience sake, so technically Id probably have to limit my flow down to 2.0 or so otherwise Ill be dumping too much FC daily. The LQ seems to keep up, so far. I figured the conversion to 12.5% will give me any overhead I might need in case of extended hot periods, sun, rain, splash out, etc.

One thing I wish I did during initial LQ startup was mark where the chlorine "high line" is after adding the full 8 gallons. I didnt have 8 gallons on hand (bad move) so I never got the full fill at once. Would have been nice to have a marker on the tank to show how much (roughly) is being used over a period of time. Ive started buying the 5 gallon 12.5% jugs from the pool store, just waiting until its obvious 5 gallons will fit in the LQ. Luckily I can store the 12.5% in my basement where its cool and dehumidified, so I shouldnt be losing too much concentration.

Ill take your advice on the flow valve........Ive also currently been looking at a way to use a reducing tee inline with the return side of the filter to screw another PVC barb adapter in, in place of the clamp on saddle valve setup that comes with the LQ. Cleaner install I think, less possibility of leaking, and possibly a little better flow because the PVC fittings should be more "open" than the saddle valve (just a theory for now).

-Chris

 

[smuggs]

yea, I didn't mark the "fill level" at first either....so I reached my arm in and felt where the white tube connects with the funnel and then marked all four corners of the LQ with a sharpie. I also took a contractor garbage bag and placed that over the LQ to reduce any effects of the sun, though my LQ is mostly shaded. The bag lets me check on the chlorine level easier than some of the other solutions people have used.