Levels off — clear pool

[GinaGina]

This is my first post and first pool. I’ve been following TFP for a few weeks and scouring the forum for info. I’ve already learned so much! I recently received my new kit (TF-100) and am determined to care for my own pool.

Levels from 8am today (8/10):
FC 5.5
TA 155
pH 7.4

Levels from 7pm last night (8/9):
CYA 150
CH 1,050
CC 0
FC 1.5
TA 160
pH 7.5
After this test I added 128oz of 10% chlorine & 16oz of 29% Muriatic Acid.

Since purchasing the house/pool on 6/27 we’ve never added Muriatic Acid until last night. And we were using chlorine tabs that were left by the previous owner until this week (thanks to TFP)—we switched to liquid Cl. We were also adding Perfect Weekly (to lower phosphates?) weekly (left by previous owners and instructed by Leslie’s) until this past week (again, thanks to TFP).

It’s been around 100-115 degrees for the past few weeks but looks like it’s going to be under 110 for the near future. I don’t want to empty any water until it cools off a bit, right? Also, the water is crystal clear, smells good, and feels good. I can see the pebble fleck colors clearly on the bottom. Any thoughts? TIA

 

[PoolGate]

You are using too much chlorine at night. Check out the "overnight chlorine loss test". You are going to need to empty some water out to lower your CYA. Sooner than later. Looks like right at 50% needs to be exchanged. Until you drain, keep your chlorine at over 10 which will throw off your pH test.

wait - looks like your FC is higher this morning. Didn't see the addition. Keep the chlorine around 10 until you drain. That will lower your CYA and hopefully CH but test your fill water for CH levels.

 

[GinaGina]

You are using too much chlorine at night. Check out the "overnight chlorine loss test". You are going to need to empty some water out to lower your CYA. Sooner than later. Looks like right at 50% needs to be exchanged. Until you drain, keep your chlorine at over 10 which will throw off your pH test.

wait - looks like your FC is higher this morning. Didn't see the addition. Keep the chlorine around 10 until you drain. That will lower your CYA and hopefully CH but test your fill water for CH levels.

Thanks for the update. I was just about to ask for clarification on that. ?

I read, I believe on TFP because that’s all I read, that it’s not good for the pool to drain (especially 50%) while the temp is so high. Is this not the case?

What does it mean to “test your fill water”? You mean, test the water I would use to add to the pool?

 

[PoolGate]

Thanks for the update. I was just about to ask for clarification on that. ?

I read, I believe on TFP because that’s all I read, that it’s not good for the pool to drain (especially 50%) while the temp is so high. Is this not the case?

What does it mean to “test your fill water”? You mean, test the water I would use to add to the pool?

Yep - test the water you would put in. Word on the street is people in your area have very high CH from the faucet.

Hopefully someone else can comment on the heat vs the plaster. It is always good to do it quick. And you could do the tarp exchange method where you put a tarp on top and slowly add water to the top of the tarp while a sump pump is draining from the bottom.

 

[GinaGina]

I’m a complete newbie at all of this and am grateful to have found TFP right away to guide me. We bought our house/pool on 6/27 and, although the numbers (Leslie’s) looked good at the time I’m making adjustments to their (previous owners & Leslie’s) instructions to follow the TFP method.

Using new TF-100 test kit
Levels from 8am today (8/10):
FC 5.5
TA 155
pH 7.4

Levels from 7pm last night (8/9):
FC 1.5
TA 160
pH 7.5
CYA 150
CH 1,050
CC 0
After this test I added 128oz of 10% chlorine & 16oz of 29% Muriatic Acid based on Pool Math. (See above for change in levels.)

Note: We switched to using liquid Cl just this week from the tabs that the previous owners left behind. Last night was the first time we’ve added muriatic acid. The pH has always looked good and this is the highest the TA has been.

Some facts: It’s been around 100-115 degrees for the past few weeks but looks like it’s going to be under 110 for the near future. It’s also our monsoon season so we’ve been having dust storms and rain. The water is crystal clear, smells good, and feels good. I can see the pebble fleck colors clearly on the bottom.

Questions:

1. Should we wait until the temperature decreases before draining/replacing any water? I’ve read (I believe in TFP because that’s all I read) that’s its best to wait until temps are at or below 80-ish degrees or there’s risk of damaging the surface. This won’t be until around November+.
2. Should we focus mainly on keeping the TA and pH balanced and not worry about the CYA & CH until the weather gets a little cooler? I’ve read in TFP not to chase numbers so am not clear on the best actions.
3. Our goal was to eventually use RO instead of draining and wasting water. Does anyone have recommendations for how to do this if only draining/replacing a portion? I would want to capture and use as much of the drained water as possible.

Thank you for any tips you can share. I’m excited to learn all I can from this group, and to keep our pool crystal clear the easiest and least expensive way possible.

 

[mknauss]

With that CH level, a simple exchange will work.
You can exchange some water without draining.

If you place a low volume sub pump in the deep end and pull water from there while adding water in the shallow end (through a skimmer or into a bucket on a step so you lessen the water disturbance) you can do a fairly efficient exchange. That is assuming the water you are filling with is the same temperature or warmer than your pool water. If your fill water is much cooler than your pool water, then switch it. Add the water to the deep end (hose on bottom) and pull water from the top step.

The location of the pump and fill hose may change if you have salt water, high calcium, etc.
In my pool, with saltwater and high calcium when I drain, I put the pump in the deep end and hose in shallow end. The water in the pool weighs more per unit volume than the fill water from the hose.

Be sure to balance the water out and water in so the pool level stays the same. Also be sure your pool pump is disabled during this process. Once started do not stop until you have exchanged the amount of water you wish.

 

[batesjer]

Your target FC is literally off the charts with your CYA that high. Someone here will give you directions on a water exchange but that will bring your CYA and CH down to manageable levels. Don't worry about your TA currently just keep adjusting your PH down and your TA will come down slowly as well. But with your CYA so high currently your FC isn't effective.

 

[Texas Splash]

GG, since both your CYA and CH are high, water replacement is a good choice. Yes, I would consider waiting if you plan on draining, The AZ sun is too tough on the exposed plaster unless you really exchange the water quickly with a large sump pump and very fast refill. If you wait, you'll want to increase the FC significantly to keep-up with the CYA as noted on the FC/CYA Levels. Remember though, when your pH is over 10, it makes the pH higher.

Something else to consider is a water exchange without draining. @mknauss has some good notes on that process you might like.

 

[mknauss]

Something else to consider is a water exchange without draining. @mknauss has some good notes on that process you might like.

I posted it to their other thread.

EDIT -- I merged the threads.

 

[GinaGina]

I posted it to their other thread.

EDIT -- I merged the threads.

Thank you for the response and for merging the threads. I was trying to figure out how to ask someone to do that but couldn't figure it out. I had hoped to have the threads moved to the "newbie" thread. I appreciate all the responses but am a little overwhelmed at the moment. I'll slowly read through each response and do some Googling to better understand the responses. Thank you.

 

[GinaGina]

Yep - test the water you would put in. Word on the street is people in your area have very high CH from the faucet.

Hopefully someone else can comment on the heat vs the plaster. It is always good to do it quick. And you could do the tarp exchange method where you put a tarp on top and slowly add water to the top of the tarp while a sump pump is draining from the bottom.

PoolGate What term would I use to Google tarp exchanging pool water? Is that literally what I would look for? This is all so foreign to me.

 

[mknauss]

You do not need or want to use the 'tarp' method. It is complicated and potentially dangerous.

Read post 6

 

[GinaGina]

With that CH level, a simple exchange will work.
You can exchange some water without draining.

If you place a low volume sub pump in the deep end and pull water from there while adding water in the shallow end (through a skimmer or into a bucket on a step so you lessen the water disturbance) you can do a fairly efficient exchange. That is assuming the water you are filling with is the same temperature or warmer than your pool water. If your fill water is much cooler than your pool water, then switch it. Add the water to the deep end (hose on bottom) and pull water from the top step.

The location of the pump and fill hose may change if you have salt water, high calcium, etc.
In my pool, with saltwater and high calcium when I drain, I put the pump in the deep end and hose in shallow end. The water in the pool weighs more per unit volume than the fill water from the hose.

Be sure to balance the water out and water in so the pool level stays the same. Also be sure your pool pump is disabled during this process. Once started do not stop until you have exchanged the amount of water you wish.

mknauss Are there different sizes

You do not need or want to use the 'tarp' method. It is complicated and potentially dangerous.

Read post 6

mknauss Okay. Thank you. I’m reading through your response of how to do the exchange and have so many questions I haven’t even been able to organize them yet.

 

[GinaGina]

With that CH level, a simple exchange will work.
You can exchange some water without draining.

If you place a low volume sub pump in the deep end and pull water from there while adding water in the shallow end (through a skimmer or into a bucket on a step so you lessen the water disturbance) you can do a fairly efficient exchange. That is assuming the water you are filling with is the same temperature or warmer than your pool water. If your fill water is much cooler than your pool water, then switch it. Add the water to the deep end (hose on bottom) and pull water from the top step.

The location of the pump and fill hose may change if you have salt water, high calcium, etc.
In my pool, with saltwater and high calcium when I drain, I put the pump in the deep end and hose in shallow end. The water in the pool weighs more per unit volume than the fill water from the hose.

Be sure to balance the water out and water in so the pool level stays the same. Also be sure your pool pump is disabled during this process. Once started do not stop until you have exchanged the amount of water you wish.

@mknauss I’m new to using a forum so pardon me if I’m not responding to comments properly. I’m learning.

I will research “low volume sump pumps”. Might you have a recommendation? I’ll also search the forum for that info.

Is there possibly a video that explains “adding water in the shallow end “through a skimmer or into a bucket on a step” so you lessen the water disturbance”? I don’t understand what this means.

I guess we would fill with water through a hose from our house, which at this time of year is quite warm. We still need to buy a pool thermometer so we can be sure.

We don’t have salt water. I can’t see my signature. Does all my information that I completed about my pool, pump etc show up? I’m not sure how to check that.

If I’m doing a refill at the same time I’m emptying, how do I know when I’ve reached the desired amount of water exchanged?
Thank you for your help!

 

[mknauss]

I use a 1/2 hp Superior pump from Amazon.

If you have a skimmer in the shallow end, you can add the water there. If not, you can put a bucket on a step in the shallow end and put the hose in that. You want the fill water to gently enter the pool.

Your fill water will be as warm or warmer than your pool water right now. Your high CH pretty much dictates putting the pump in the deep end and adding water in the shallow end.

I bet the salinity of your pool is higher than you think, but it does not matter.

Once you get the water out balanced with the water in, take the hose going to your sewer cleanout or wherever you are sending the effluent and fill a 5 gallon bucket while timing it. Convert that to gallons per minute. That will let you determine how long to run the process. With a 10.6K pool, I will guess it will take about 24 hours.

 

[GinaGina]

I use a 1/2 hp Superior pump from Amazon.

If you have a skimmer in the shallow end, you can add the water there. If not, you can put a bucket on a step in the shallow end and put the hose in that. You want the fill water to gently enter the pool.

Your fill water will be as warm or warmer than your pool water right now. Your high CH pretty much dictates putting the pump in the deep end and adding water in the shallow end.

I bet the salinity of your pool is higher than you think, but it does not matter.

Once you get the water out balanced with the water in, take the hose going to your sewer cleanout or wherever you are sending the effluent and fill a 5 gallon bucket while timing it. Convert that to gallons per minute. That will let you determine how long to run the process. With a 10.6K pool, I will guess it will take about 24 hours.

@mknauss To clarify, by skimmer you mean the skimmer basket where the leaves collect? If so, ours is by the deep end.

We have several large steps/seats in our shallow end. So, put the bucket where the top is out of the water with the hose in the bucket and the water runs over and into the pool, or where the entire bucket is submerged with the hose in the bucket with the water running?

Pool Math says we need to drain 78% of our water! How critical is it that we do this soon? I rather wait until I’m more comfortable with all that I’m learning and also until it cools off a little. Also, what if our hot city desert water has high CH which was mentioned here?

 

[mknauss]

Put the bucket on a step so the top of the bucket is just out of the water. Tie the hose to the bucket handle so it will not come out.

Up to you how soon you do it. If you get algae, you will not be able to fight it. You will not be able to keep your FC at minimum and measure pH. With a CH of 1000+, you are currently getting or will soon get scale buildup on most pool surfaces.

Your fill water has a CH of ~250 ppm I suspect. That is Colorado River water.

 

[PoolGate]

Honestly if it was me I would buy a cheap gas pump from Amazon and drain 1/2 the water, throw in the hose and water the edges while it filled. Your pool is not that large where it would take that long.

 

[mknauss]

Honestly if it was me I would buy a cheap gas pump from Amazon and drain 1/2 the water, throw in the hose and water the edges while it filled. Your pool is not that large where it would take that long.

Depends on where the effluent is going. Most cities here in the desert say to put the water into the sewer cleanout. You cannot put a large flow rate into the cleanout without the potential for it to back up into your showers, tubs, etc. Not a good thing.

If you can drain to the street, then it is possible. You would need a sufficient amount of large diameter line to get to the street. You can rent a 4000 gph gas pump from Home Depot.

You need to wet all the exposed plaster, day or night. The heat and low humidity will dry it out rapidly.

 

[GinaGina]

Put the bucket on a step so the top of the bucket is just out of the water. Tie the hose to the bucket handle so it will not come out.

Up to you how soon you do it. If you get algae, you will not be able to fight it. You will not be able to keep your FC at minimum and measure pH. With a CH of 1000+, you are currently getting or will soon get scale buildup on most pool surfaces.

Your fill water has a CH of ~250 ppm I suspect. That is Colorado River water.

@mcnauss Thank you for that detailed explanation!

I’m sure I’ll be back with more questions soon. ~GG