Leak in liner

[AnnaK]

There's a hole in my liner . . .
The water drains about 2" per 24 hrs. It's now down below all fittings and is at about the level we put it when we winterize. We're hoping it stays because that would give us the opportunity to really examine the sides, see if there's a tear at that level. If we can find it, we can fix it before it freezes and maybe squeeze another season out of this pool. It was installed in 2004 and this is its second liner.
If the leak is not at the water line it may well be at the bottom where I'm seeing some sink holes. In that case, the liner is history as may the skin be because it may well collapse when empty. We'll deal with that next year.

I would like to learn more about sand bottoms and Gorilla pads. Years ago, when I was new to AGPs and active in this group, I remember reading about foam pads over the sand layer. Is that still a thing?

Our subsurface is problematic. Shale and tree roots. In fact, there is what I suspect to be a knob from a root pushing up, making an egg shaped deformity in the liner. No, that isn't the source of the leak. We inspected it and the liner has maintained its integrity in that area. But because of the hostile ground I'm wondering whether a protective pad on top of the sand would make sense.

Adding a photo of the sink hole just for fun.

Thanks for any input you have.

 

[cowboycasey]

I used 3/4 foam and love it... I have no trees so no roots, I do have moles and they have not touched it...

under my pool I did layers like this, granted it is an above ground so not exactly the same...

Dirt/clay then crusher run stone compacted at each layer



Then sand and for some reason I did not get a picture of that but but you can see it on the edges here..


Then foam, my son thought he was exhausted, little did he know we just started...

 

[AnnaK]

Thanks for your response and the photos. You backfilled with clay over the stone before you put the foam down? No sand layer? And no coveing (sp?) along the bottom? I've always been under the impression that the cove is necessary for steel shell AGPs but that may not be so for Intext pools.
ETA: I just saw where you did put down sand as well.

 

[cowboycasey]

I like the foam cove also as there is no way for it to wash away

I started with clay/dirt and built up as I did not want the clay there as it can move when it dries out...

 

[AnnaK]

Thank you.
The pool is now nearly empty which means the leak is on the bottom rather than the side. We'll try to locate it and patch it but won't be able to fill the pool until late next spring. I only hope the sides don't collapse.

 

[cowboycasey]

You REALLY REALLY do not want to let an above ground pool set without water in it... It will blow over whenever strong wind hits it and do way more damage than just a hole in the liner... once the hole is fixed at least fill it half way..

 

[thefloatqueen]

PLEASE fill your pool below the returns (at least half way!!!!!) or as much as you can to maintain the integrity of the pool walls. Leaving a pool, ESPECIALLY an above ground pool, without water will cause some big damage and it’s just not worth risking. Especially with the strong winds during the fall and winter. Patch up those leaks, fill at LEAST half way (not sure if you want to get some chemicals circulated first...if so we can discuss that next), and then close up shop til spring!!

EDIT: Do you use a winter cover or plan to go uncovered this winter? If you use a mesh cover or aren’t using a cover at all, you may have a LITTLE more leeway as far as how much to fill it.

 

[AnnaK]

I appreciate your comments regarding leaving an AGP empty over winter due to the likelihood of collapse in the absence of the internal support provided by the water.
The pool is still draining about 2" every 24 hrs. The leak is probably on the bottom of the liner where the 'sinkhole' in the above photo is. We will try to locate it and fix it, if we can. Night time temps are approaching the mid to low 30s but we can use a hair dryer to help warm the area and aid in setting the patch. We will not be able to fill the sand layer beneath the liner.
We live in a rural area and get our water from a well. To fill the pool we can only pump in 2" per day. To buy water from Aquaduck costs around $700 and, if the patch doesn't hold for whatever reason, that's money down the sinkhole.
We could spend a week adding well water slowly to see if the patch holds. However, we can't run the pump to circulate. The plumbing has already been disconnected in preparation for freezing nights.
The pool structure is 16 years old. There is an area at one of the oval ends where the metal is bowed outward, has been since last year so is not related to the current leak, and one of the external struts is no longer flush up against the side. I can take a picture if that would be useful.

We are concerned that the pool has reached the end of its useful life span and that paying to add water in order to save the walls from collapsing might not be the way to go. We do not use a winter cover or a leaf cover. The water normally freezes a good 9" down. IF we can find and patch the leak and IF we can run a hose and add some water before the freeze happens and precludes that, we can possibly manage 14" of water.

 

[AnnaK]

I am going to attach several photos of the current situation.

This shows the strut (is that the right term?) no longer fully attached to the metal due to the skin warping.


This is the warping and bowing of the metal skin at the bottom. It developed a couple of years ago possibly due to the ground shifting.


Same location a little closer up.


We have about 4" of water left. The center of this photo shows the warped metal from the inside of the pool.


The stick in the upper left was our measuring device but it's now too short to be useful anymore. In the bottom right you can see the sinkhole now covered by leaves. The black non-skid strip looks like it points right at it. We have to let the water empty completely in order to find the leak because patching it will require crawling around on hands and knees and this water is COLD!!!! And we are old.


Shot of the back of the pool under the deck. Rusted. The black hose was supposed a drainage hose put in because the pool sits at the edge of a steep hill. Nothing has ever drained out but ground squirrels and garter snakes love it!


So, this is what we have. Your input is very much appreciated. Please keep in mind, we're in eastern PA, it's getting cold at night, water comes from a well and is scarce.