Just installed Equipment...how’s this look?

[3asyB]

Not exactly sure what I’m looking at.

 

[ajw22]

Who did the install?

Demand that the installer label every pipe with its function and put arrows on direction of water flow.

 

[tstex]

Allen, I do not believe the install is complete, but yes, everything should be labeled. Looks like the blower is missing and a few electrical conduits not plumbed out yet. Not having a wall to mount the electrical lines does make things a bit more challenging, at least to me...

 

[3asyB]

You’re right. They are not done. I’m ha Inc them add a light, I’ll have them label all pipes. Anything else look off?

Thanks for the help TFP

 

[ajw22]

Post some closeup pictures of the suction and return sides. Hard to see what is happening in the rear.

That blue valve is not the highest quality . I would have preferred a Jandy valve there. The blue valve will likely give you trouble after a few years in the sun.

 

[3asyB]

Close ups

They are not completely done. They will label lines, any to remedy the blue valves?Apparently I’m going to have a panel next to the pad to hold the electrical.

everything else look ok?

 

[ajw22]

You have other red, blue and grey ball valves. They do not last like Jandy valves do and stick after a few years in the sun.

 

[Jimrahbe]

3B,

I would be interested in what the pool build said that talked you into the cyclone? It seems to me that it will require you to run your VS pump at a pretty high RPM, in order to get enough flow through the system and back to the pool.

Also, what is it that is plumbed around the red valve? I assume Ozone, but have not seen it before.

How do you intend to keep your pool sanitized?

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[3asyB]

uninformed pool buyer. I found TFP after purchase. I’m going through details stage by stage.

They didn’t talk me into the cyclone, that just seems to be the setup they like/sell. I don’t even know what it does, assuming it’s the pump. Is it a bad one?

The red valve is for ozone, I would have omitted if I’d have found y’all earlier but I have it. I believe I’m still chlorine with this ozone system to help? Is it a waste?

Thanks for the input TFP. Keep it coming.

 

[Jimrahbe]

3B,

I have just not seen a cyclone set up before and have zero actual experience with one... But I am a woodworker and have a cyclone in my shop. It basically separates the wood chips and particles from the fine dust generated by my woodworking tools. It works great for my shop as I often generate several 30 gallon cans of chips... I can't see the logic behind one for a pool as the debris have to pass through the skimmer basket and then the pump basket before getting to the pump. I just don't see enough debris making it past the pump that it will make much of a difference. I suppose it might trap a few things, but I don't see the obvious need for one. I suspect the selling point is that it keeps the cartridges cleaner and allows you to run longer between cleanings... I doubt it would really make much of a difference...

I 'assume' for it to work well, you have got to force water through at a pretty good clip to have much cyclonic action.. To do that, I again 'assume' that you will have to run the pump at a higher speed. The more stuff you put between the output of the pump and the pool, the harder it is for the pump to push water through it all... The harder it is, the faster you have to run the pump. So you have the cyclone, the filter, the heater, and then the Ozone plumbing... It will be interesting to see how it all works out for you. Once you get your system up and running, I'd like you to report back with the speed you need to run your pump to make your heater work... Heaters require a certain amount of flow/pressure before they will fire up.

Usually pool builders sell Ozone and UV system together.. Did you also get the UV system? We have an article on them, but since we upgraded our website, I've lost it somewhere. I'll see if I can find it for you...

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[ajw22]

You thinking about Alternative sanitizers and "chemical free" pools--The Truth!

What about ozone and/or UV? Can't that reduce or eliminate the need for chlorine? In a word, No, and for a very simple reason. Ozone and UV have NO residual effect so again, a residual sanitizer is still needed. The only place these will kill pathogens is in the contact chamber (where the water is exposed to the ozone or UV), not in the pool. Ozone will destroy chlorine but will oxidize organics so it's a two edge sword. You will generally have higher chlorine consumption with ozone than without and it does not allow you to run lower chlorine levels because there is no residual effect from the ozone. The higher bather to water ratio in a spa makes ozone much more useful there than in a pool because it does oxidize organics. Ozone is also toxic in large enough quantities to actually sanitize pool water. For many, ozone is more useful in bromine systems since it will activate the bromide into bromine sanitizer so it works with bromine instead of against it. However, it will cause bromates to form and they are a suspected carcinogen in drinking water!

UV light can kill pathogens and some of the units also produce some ozone but this only occurs in the contact chamber and there is no residual effect in the pool. Once again, more useful in a spa than a pool. UV might be of some value in an indoor pool in conjunction with chlorine to help destroy persistent chloramines.

 

[3asyB]

No, this is just the standard setup the PB sells. They say it is still a chlorine pool, but they say the ozone helps reduce the amount of chlorine required.

I don’t think it’s hooked up yet. Should I tell them to leave it out?

What I think I’m reading is TFP says it actually works against chlorine. I understand there is no residual left in the pool with ozone but if it is working against the chlorine I might not want it at all.

 

[PoolGate]

No, this is just the standard setup the PB sells. They say it is still a chlorine pool, but they say the ozone helps reduce the amount of chlorine required.

I don’t think it’s hooked up yet. Should I tell them to leave it out?

What I think I’m reading is TFP says it actually works against chlorine. I understand there is no residual left in the pool with ozone but if it is working against the chlorine I might not want it at all.

An outdoor pool in TX does not need additional UV that is for sure. If you can get a refund on that stuff, I would certainly remove it all. Also I know builders in TX poo poo saltwater chlorine generators but if you can, try to trade that stuff for a saltwater chlorine generator. You'll thank us later.

 

[setsailsoon]

3B,

I agree with the comments so far, also I'd add the following:

• Looks like several of the 90 deg joints are out of square. Get a small level and check. These connections will fail pre-maturely due to unnecessary stress. Could be it's just a visual distortion in the photo but it's easy to check.
• The cyclone filter is redundant. It will require a minimum flow to get the cyclone effect to operate, in your case it is 13.2 gpm and does not enhance the cartridge filter at all. It does not improve filtration of small particles. Having it does increase your filtering capacity but it would be much more effective to just add area to your cartridge but the one you have looks plenty adequate. I clean my cartridge every 6 months and my pool has been sparkling clear even back when the builder was still active creating a lot of dust. Cyclone filters are great in certain services. In this service it's a waste of money.
• If you can get a credit for any of the unnecessary equipment I'd vote for automation or SWG.

I hope this is helpful.

Chris

 

[tstex]

3B,
It's very critical on how you approach the pool builder for refunds.

First, do not allude to him that you want a refund or to take out certain things Ask him if someone were to ask me how much it would cost for you to sell them a cyclone and Ozone system w out installation? Now you have your refund number bc if you ask him how much will you refund me, that number will be A LOT smaller. Then ask a ballpark installation cost.

Next, what does your contract say? Also, he's already installed it, so the install refund is lost. Might charge you a removal cost so you need to play this carefully.

Finally, take the info from this board to justify your need for removal; these things are gimmicks [ozone] and cyclone for your applications is a waste...did he ever discuss w you why he was installing these things?

 

[3asyB]

cyclone is installed, i own it. He showed me an existing system that had the cyclone, no ozone. The cyclone system had 3" of sand in the bottom, he basically said it keeps all of that Crud out of your filter. he turned the valve, the sand and water went bye bye and all that was left was clean water.

All of yall are correct, they do not like SWCG.

I saw an interesting post not too long ago on this site, a guy asked someone if they had a "typical Texas pool" I asked what a typical Texas pool was and he said it included alot of natural stone, flagstone, limestone, etc.

Well i have a typical Texas pool, would it be possible that the PB's in Texas don't like SWCG because they see more of the deteriorated stone, simply because there is more of that type design down here, (and with the number of people that have salt levels too high?) they see more issues?

they even told me it would rust out all of the components on the equipment pad? I've got their attention this morning when i asked if i could eliminate the ozone system, his reply was "the only other economical option would be saltwater, unless i want to go straight chlorine"

I guess my next play will be to see what the price is to add SWCG vs deduct to just remove the ozone system.

Is there a Hayward SWCG that yall would recommend, we are approx 20,000 Gallons.

Thanks for the help TFP, proud to support.

 

[Jimrahbe]

3B,

Please keep in mind that we are just a bunch a bunch of people that you met on the internet... At this point in the construction it might be too late to do much about the equipment. It really depends on your relationship with your pool builder. I would talk with him and see if he can set your mind at ease.. I suspect that you are going to have to pay for the equipment whether you use it or not...

It might make sense to use what the pool builder designed and see how well it works for you. If our predictions come true, it could easily be removed or modified later.

Do you intend to maintain your own pool or will you hiring a pool guy?

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[3asyB]

my intent at this point is to maintain my own pool, we are out of town a good bit so after learning about swcg it made sense to me, but the PB has really warned me about what it will do to all of our stone when i asked about it.

this PB does approx 100 pools per year in our area and they seem to have a good reputation. they said upfront they do not try to sell monthly maintenance, some of the other PB's in the ares definitely specialize in maintenance. My PB says they want to provide me with a system that makes it easy to keep clean and sanitized (cyclone, cartridge, ozone, and chlorine tablets in the skimmer is what they teach) but they will obviously sell me whatever i want.

*** Maybe we have poor quality flagstone in this area, i know i had heck finding a jumprock that looked halfway decent. Maybe that's also why they push the additional cyclone filtration (because my stone ends up as sand in my pool) and shy away from salt.

Any TFP'ers in Texas (between Houston and Austin) with a "typical Texas pool" and have SWCG?

My question - is the issue with swcg that people keep the salt levels too high or does the swcg do that for you?

 

[Jimrahbe]

3B,

It is more of a Houston area thing than a Texas thing...

I have a rent house that has a pool with flagstone coping.. when I bought the house it was a standard 3" chlorine tab pool... On some of the coping you could see where the flagstone had thin layers that would flake off over time, but the stone right next to that one did not have these thin layers... I would guess about half the coping had the "bad" stones.. We used the pool as a 3" tab pool for more than a year and the bad stones kept shedding and the good stones did not. We then upgraded to a saltwater pool and it has been that way for over four years, maybe longer... During this time, the bad stones have not gotten worse or better and still shed. The good stones are still the same and the saltwater has had zero effect on them.

The point is that the saltwater is not the problem.. The problem is the poor quality stone..

Keep in mind that the salt level in a saltwater pool is about 3500 ppm... about the same as in your tears.. The ocean, on the other hand is 35,000 ppm..

I currently have three saltwater pools.. I have had zero problems with my pool equipment.. Nothing rusts or falls apart..

If I built 100 more pools, they would all be saltwater pool. Oh, just to be clear... a saltwater pool is a chlorine pool.. The Saltwater Chlorine Generator (SWCG) just uses the salt in the pool to make chlorine which sanitizes your pool water...

And finally... Adding 3" tabs to the skimmer is not a good idea... Buy a floater or add an tab dispenser, but never, ever leave them in the skimmer... Sigh!!!

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[3asyB]

Thanks jim. I’m going to inquire about eliminating ozone and adding a swcg.

They typically deal in Hayward products, Is there a Hayward swcg model that I should be pursuing.