Intermatic T104

JamesW

TFP Expert
Mar 2, 2011
13,067
#21
There is only one 240 volt breaker. It's 50 amps, so that might be a heat pump or hot tub?

The subpanel was probably installed by the old homeowner with no permit.

The pumps don't look like they are properly bonded. I don't see any bond wires.

I would recommend that you get an electrician to check everything because there are multiple unsafe conditions.
 

jmastron

LifeTime Supporter
Jul 21, 2014
254
Sacramento, CA
#23
Is this panel on an outbuilding, not physically connected to the main house? If so, and if it was installed longer than I think 10 years ago, the 3-wire feed and bonded neutral/ground would have been code compliant at the time and still legal. If more recent, current code would have 4 big wires coming from the main panel and the neutral/ground separated (and if it's a subpanel in the same building the code back then would have too).

Which specific handle cut the power to the pump -- the 2nd from the left that has a red wire coming from it (the leftmost double breaker, the right handle of that breaker)? And which handle cuts power to the other red wire -- I'm guessing the rightmost handle of the rightmost double breaker just from the wire color shade?

That's definitely wrong for a 240V setup, as both of the red wires come from the same leg of the incoming feed (and even if they weren't, 240V breaker handles must be tied together). Properly supplying 240V would require a tandem breaker like this (just an example, need one that's listed for the specific panel): https://www.homedepot.com/p/Square-D-Homeline-2-20-Amp-Single-Pole-1-20-Amp-2-Pole-Quad-Tandem-Circuit-Breaker-HOMT2020220CP/100186179. The middle two handles and terminals would supply the pump, and the outer two would be independent 120V circuits so there'd still be enough circuits.

However, changing breakers like this is beyond my DIY comfort level especially for a pool area, and doing so legally might require permits and worst case whatever's needed to get a 4th wire from the main panel if has to be updated to new code. An electrician would be a must to do anything further there.

Since it does appear to be a 20 Amp circuit with 12 gauge wire, the simplest answer is to just get the T101 timer as you mentioned and make the whole pump setup 120V. From the wiring diagram at https://www.intermatic.com/-/media/inRiver/10162-9164.ashx/T101-Instructions-EN, you'd wire it as such:

Ground: Same as current timer
Terminal A (neutral): Connected to the silver and white wires (neutral coming in, and neutral going to the pump). You can put both wires under the same screw.
Terminal 1 (line): Connected to one of the inbound red wires that's connected to the current timer. Cap the other inbound red wire with a wire nut, and turn off/mark the corresponding breaker in the panel.
Terminal 2 (load): Connected to the blue wire going to the pump

Editing to add -- I agree with others that having an electrician that has worked with pools come take a look would be a wise and safe thing to do.
 

JamesW

TFP Expert
Mar 2, 2011
13,067
#25
Not that I think it matters but that 240V breaker looks to be 60 amps, not 50 amps.

View attachment 88926
Ok, I can see 60 now. That's a lot of power. Definitely need to know what that goes to.

In any case, I think that it's time for an electrician to check this out.

In my opinion, the original work was done by someone who did not know what they were doing.
 

ajw22

Gold Supporter
TFP Guide
Jul 21, 2013
3,733
Northern NJ
#26
I

That's definitely wrong for a 240V setup, as both of the red wires come from the same leg of the incoming feed (and even if they weren't, 240V breaker handles must be tied together). Properly supplying 240V would require a tandem breaker like this (just an example, need one that's listed for the specific panel): https://www.homedepot.com/p/Square-D-Homeline-2-20-Amp-Single-Pole-1-20-Amp-2-Pole-Quad-Tandem-Circuit-Breaker-HOMT2020220CP/100186179. The middle two handles and terminals would supply the pump, and the outer two would be independent 120V circuits so there'd still be enough circuits.

However, changing breakers like this is beyond my DIY comfort level especially for a pool area, and doing so legally might require permits and worst case whatever's needed to get a 4th wire from the main panel if has to be updated to new code. An electrician would be a must to do anything further there.
I didn't know about that type of quad CB. I hang out here to learn things like this.

The OP already has 140 amps of breakers in that panel. I would want to know what the feed breaker and wiring to that panel is. Putting a quad in that raises the capacity of the panel to 160 Amps would not be wise until all the loads and the feed capacity is known. It is likely that most of those 20 amp circuits don't carry anywhere near 20 amps. Another reason to get an electricians review of that setup.
 

JamesW

TFP Expert
Mar 2, 2011
13,067
#30
Just to emphasize, you really need to get this checked by an electrician.

I don't think that anything is grounded or bonded, which makes it very dangerous.

I suspect that the previous homeowner probably did a lot of work on the house with no permits or professional help.

I suspect that you are going to find a lot of unpermitted work that was not done correctly and it's going to cause you a lot of problems.

I wouldn't be surprised if the pool was done without a permit.
 
OP
OP
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griego

Active member
Nov 9, 2018
33
Miami
#31
I connected the timer at 120v and now is working fine. Though I will bring an electrician as discussed to check on everything. Thanks