IntelliCenter Service Mode

MyAZPool

Gold Supporter
Jul 3, 2018
437
Arizona
Found a bit of a quirk with my IntelliCenter Automation System, that is not addressed in the IntelliCenter Control System User's Guide.

While attempting to assist with a "Service Mode" issue in the following thread: Intellicenter - service mode, timeout - what does your pump do?, I put my system into service mode. Once I completed what I was looking for, I placed my system back into "AUTO" mode.

The next day, I looked out my kitchen window and noticed that the suction side cleaner was not "doing-it's-thing", when it should have been, based on programmed schedules. I went to the Control Panel to see why. My scheduled CIRCUIT GROUP was ON, but none of the Circuit Group's associated individual FEATURE CIRCUITS were on. Hmmm..:scratch: So, I performed a SYSTEM RESET according to the documentation (Press and Hold the RESET button for 10 seconds). Once the "Reset" was completed, the scheduled Circuit Group and it's associated Feature Circuits "came alive", and everything was back to normal.

So, with my system anyway, it appears that you must perform a SYSTEM RESET, after manually putting the system back into AUTO mode, after being in SERVICE MODE. Not sure if this same anomaly will occur if the system goes back to AUTO mode automatically based on the set TIMER mode for the feature.

The documentation does not address this issue.

If anyone else experiences this issue, try this simple "work-around" and that should correct the problem.
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JoyfulNoise

TFP Expert
Platinum Supporter
May 23, 2015
14,850
Tucson, AZ
What does Pentair say?

These Intellicenters are their “latest & greatest” automation offering but I suspect their newness means there will be lots of quirks to figure out. It would be good to know if the above issue is a feature or a bug....
 

bdavis466

TFP Expert
Platinum Supporter
In The Industry
Aug 4, 2014
4,422
San Clemente, CA
I don't see why that would be the case. The EasyTouch and IntelliTouch don't have that issue after service mode.
 

TonyWI

Well-known member
May 21, 2015
45
Wauwatosa, WI
@MyAZPool -- this is now happening to me. Probably a result of my tinkering with service/timeout for that other thread.

Same symptom - Circuit Group on ("Opening" - runs pump non stop). The circuit it activates (2500 don't stop) is hidden so I can't see it's status, but the pump is not running so it isn't active.

I'll try your reset tip... once the snow melts and I can get out there. LOL.

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MyAZPool

Gold Supporter
Jul 3, 2018
437
Arizona
@MyAZPool -- this is now happening to me. Probably a result of my tinkering with service/timeout for that other thread.

Same symptom - Circuit Group on ("Opening" - runs pump non stop). The circuit it activates (2500 don't stop) is hidden so I can't see it's status, but the pump is not running so it isn't active.

I'll try your reset tip... once the snow melts and I can get out there. LOL.
TonyWI
Hi. Snow? Yikes :shock:....
Yes, perform a "SYSTEM REBOOT" (NOT A "RESTORE FACTORY DEFAULTS") :) A RESTORE FACTORY DEFAULTS, will ruin your day if you do not have a current config file backup (which you should always have a current copy of).

Tap and hold the System Reboot button to reset the system (applies to Outdoor, Indoor Control Panels and Wireless Remotes). Immediately after tapping System Reboot a message screen is displayed to confirm that you wish to reset the system. This feature has the same system reset function using the Reset Button on the Wireless Remote cradle, and on the front of the Indoor or Outdoor Control Panel.

Let's see if that clears up the issue. It should. I don't really know what you mean that your "2500 don't stop" Feature Circuit is "hidden".
Try the reset and let's take it from there. Don't work too hard shoveling that snow (easy for me to say as I sit out on my patio this morning in shorts and t-shirt) :p

r.
 

TonyWI

Well-known member
May 21, 2015
45
Wauwatosa, WI
I don't really know what you mean that your "2500 don't stop" Feature Circuit is "hidden".
Well, hidden was probably a bad choice of words. But it's set to not show as a "feature" so it's not showing on the main screen or app in features section.

Don't get me started with these freak Wisconsin snow storms... Last year we got a foot of snow on Easter Sunday. It's 50 degrees now so we're swinging all over the place. :p

Just did the reboot, and same as you - everything kicked right back in. Thanks :)
 

MyAZPool

Gold Supporter
Jul 3, 2018
437
Arizona
Just did the reboot, and same as you - everything kicked right back in. Thanks :)
Excellent :goodjob:
So guess it's confirmed. When an IntelliCenter user messes around with Service Mode, it requires a System Reboot in order to put things back to normal. I'm going to check into this and see "wuz-up" with this. We now know we have a "work-around" but it doesn't seem to me, that this anomaly should be occurring. :scratch:
Thanks Tony... Stay warm up there. :)
r.
 

Jimrahbe

Mod Squad
TFP Expert
LifeTime Supporter
Jul 7, 2014
11,313
Bedford, TX
Guys,

Just like you, I am here to help when I can, and to learn when I can't help... So, give me a little training here..

In post #4 it appears to me that you have a Group called "Opening"... Under that Group is a circuit called "2500 Don't Stop".. Is there something else under the Group other than just the one circuit? If not why have a group?

Also, I see that both the Group and the Circuit are checked as "don't Stop".. I wonder if having both checked as don't stop might be causing your Service Mode issue. As a test I would turn of the Don't stop on both of them and see if the Service mode starts to work..

Appreciate any feedback,

Jim R.
 

TonyWI

Well-known member
May 21, 2015
45
Wauwatosa, WI
@Jimrahbe -

Is there something else under the Group other than just the one circuit? If not why have a group?
The reason it's in a group - is because of trying to be user friendly. Clicking on "Opening" and overriding the schedule in entirety - is friendlier than picking 2500 don't stop. There isn't anything else in that group now, no. But see below about my light comment for ideas I have. I have my pump circuits mostly in RPM's now since I'm still finding what speeds I want to have available.

I also like having the "override" stuff on a second page - groups. But I'm still fiddling daily, and moving things around, and finding out what works best.

What I really wish I could do would be to change the light program/color via circuits. Seems a huge oversight on Pentair's part. Like - I could look out at the pool, and if was fixed red I'd know I was in the "Chemical Add" routine. Because, why not?

I can try flipping the "don't stops" around and see if it makes a difference.
 

TonyWI

Well-known member
May 21, 2015
45
Wauwatosa, WI
@Jimrahbe -

The reason it's in a group - is because of trying to be user friendly. Clicking on "Opening" and overriding the schedule in entirety - is friendlier than picking 2500 don't stop. There isn't anything else in that group now, no. But see below about my light comment for ideas I have. I have my pump circuits mostly in RPM's now since I'm still finding what speeds I want to have available.

I also like having the "override" stuff on a second page - groups. But I'm still fiddling daily, and moving things around, and finding out what works best.

What I really wish I could do would be to change the light program/color via circuits. Seems a huge oversight on Pentair's part. Like - I could look out at the pool, and if was fixed red I'd know I was in the "Chemical Add" routine. Because, why not?

I can try flipping the "don't stops" around and see if it makes a difference.

edit to add: I also wish I could vary heater set points with circuits. We plan to keep the pool warm all year (this would be new for us) but I'd like to schedule a night swim, and crank the temps up - with a circuit/group - but then have the schedule do the setback afterwards.
 

Jimrahbe

Mod Squad
TFP Expert
LifeTime Supporter
Jul 7, 2014
11,313
Bedford, TX
Tony,

Playing around with things makes sense to me... What does "opening" do other than run you pump at 2500 RPM? What is it for?

I use my EasyTouch to control my stand alone spa.. It is scheduled to hold at 90 degrees and then at 7:00 PM to heat up to 104 degrees, and then back to 90 at about 9:30 pm.. If the ET can do it, I'm sure your IntelliCenter can do it..

Thanks,

Jim R.
 

TonyWI

Well-known member
May 21, 2015
45
Wauwatosa, WI
Opening just runs the pump 24x7 today. We start the pool up when it's still quite cold outside, so I like 24x7 for freeze protection, and to get the water nice and clear. Plus I'm usually rebalancing the water after having replaced (with rain/snow) 1/3 of the water. We ran in this mode for a few weeks this year.

Could the heat be a dual-body thing? For a spa, but not a pool? I have nothing in my settings other than defining the heater, the set point, and turning heat on/off, cool down delay, etc.
 

TonyWI

Well-known member
May 21, 2015
45
Wauwatosa, WI
I wonder... our heater is turned off now (but is configured) on the Intellicenter, because the water is still 45 degrees. Could it be that I'm not seeing the options for heat set points, due to that? That would be stupid.

Edit - yep, that was it. How freaking annoying. LOL. Now I see all the heat options, in the schedules. But - nothing within the circuits themselves. (My Night Swim wouldn't necessarily be scheduled - it would be a circuit group.)97462 be
 
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MyAZPool

Gold Supporter
Jul 3, 2018
437
Arizona
@Jimrahbe -
What I really wish I could do would be to change the light program/color via circuits. Seems a huge oversight on Pentair's part. Like - I could look out at the pool, and if was fixed red I'd know I was in the "Chemical Add" routine. Because, why not?
TonyWI
Tony,
Wow. You sure know how to "open up a can of worms" up there in Packers country. :mrgreen: After reading your comment regarding scheduling different colors. I looked at the documentation and of course nothing there sooo.... I got to thinking about it and thought "This should be able to be done", so I got busy playing around.

Well, the simple answer is you CAN do what you want but not by utilizing CIRCUITS (AUX or FEATURE) . Instead, you are going to use "LIGHT GROUPS" and then schedule those LIGHT GROUPS at the same time as the "Chemical Add" routine, etc. Think of a LIGHT GROUP as a CIRCUIT GROUP. It's a bit convoluted but once you get the hang of it, it becomes easy. Once it's done, then its on autopilot. And it really can't be done on the Web Client or even the iOS app. You really need to do it on the System TouchScreen. I just got done testing it and it works.

So here is the "secret". ☑

1. Create as many LIGHT GROUPS as colors that you want to use in your various schedules. In my testing, I created three LIGHT GROUPS that I called RED, BLUE and GREEN.

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2. Then I edited those LIGHT GROUPS according to their labeled colors by using the EDIT button for each group.

NOTE: Ensure that you go through or have gone through the "Color Set" procedures for each color. It's outlined on pp 17 of the IntelliCenter Control System User's Guide but of course that is a joke (let's not get me started on Pentair documentation and their "lack of technical writing prowess". Grrrrrrr. 👿) If you need help with the "Color Set" procedures, I'll be happy to help you out with that.

3. Next, go ahead and create schedules for the various light colors (using the light groups that you created) and configure the scheduling times etc for each schedule. Recommend that you name the SCHEDULES, the same as the LIGHT GROUP names. This may avoid confusion later. I used the screen print from the Web Client for illustration purposes but I recommend that you do it at the panel.

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As you can see, I set the times up for 5 min each (I kind of messed up the time for green, but it still worked perfectly) starting at 4:40 for testing purposes.
Red: 4:40 - 4:45
Blue: 4:45 - 4:50
Green 5:00 - 5:30

Red light came on at 4:40. Then changed to Blue at 4:45 and went off at 4:50. Then Green came on at 5:00 and went off at 5:30.

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So, yea, just set up the schedules for the same times as whatever you want the colors to be coordinated with.
Let me know if this works for you or if you have any questions.
Take care.
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TonyWI

Well-known member
May 21, 2015
45
Wauwatosa, WI
Interesting! I forget there is so much more you can do at the panel vs. the WebUI/App. I.e in the web, you can create a light group, but there are no options for color.

So once you have your light groups - can you also put them in circuit groups, or are you just limited to schedules? (IMO, anything you can put in a schedule should be allowed in a circuit group!) I need to get out of the web and spend some time at the panel going back through all the options and tinkering.

I appreciate your efforts! Perhaps it's time to start an Intellicenter Wiki and get all of this "learned" knowledge in one spot. I'd be happy to assist. And ANYTHING is better than the manuals. Ahem. Does TFP accommodate wiki-style posts?

Regarding "Color Set" -- what does it even do? Picks the color the group turns on to? Again, that manual...

Side note - have you found documentation on what these "other" things do in circuit groups? Aaah, they seem to line up with what you would want on a spa side remote... that would make sense. But I wonder what purpose would they serve in a feature group?
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Lastly - do you have an internal control panel or wireless remote? My question would be - does it duplicate (exactly) the experience at the touch panel, with all the "missing" stuff from the web/app? I chose not to buy one because I incorrectly assumed that there would be feature parity between the panel and web/app.

Tony

P.S. The snow melted... :_)
 

MyAZPool

Gold Supporter
Jul 3, 2018
437
Arizona
TonyWI
Tony,
Interesting! I forget there is so much more you can do at the panel vs. the WebUI/App. I.e in the web, you can create a light group, but there are no options for color.
I agree. I'm optimistic that people will complain (I know that I will). Pentair is aware of this (because I have discussed this issue on many occasions with them) but I'm afraid that the "squeaky wheel is going to get the grease" in this case. The more we complain about the WebUI, the more incentive they have to do something about it. It's just the few of us who want more and more from our IntelliCenter Client Software. ;). If we (IntelliCenter users) want more out of the Web Client and the iOS/Android platforms, we will need to call Pentair Tech Support and voice our concerns. There are other options that may warrant exploring in the future.
So once you have your light groups - can you also put them in circuit groups, or are you just limited to schedules? (IMO, anything you can put in a schedule should be allowed in a circuit group!) I need to get out of the web and spend some time at the panel going back through all the options and tinkering.
LIGHT GROUPS can only be "Scheduled" or activated manually. I just think of them as CIRCUIT GROUPS (but just for lights) You can schedule a CIRCUIT GROUP, but you can't embed a CIRCUIT GROUP within another CIRCUIT GROUP. So just limited to schedules as far as I can tell. Yes, a lot more options at the panel and that goes right back to what I was addressing in my previous comments above.

I appreciate your efforts! Perhaps it's time to start an Intellicenter Wiki and get all of this "learned" knowledge in one spot. I'd be happy to assist. And ANYTHING is better than the manuals. Ahem. Does TFP accommodate wiki-style posts?
No worries at all. Glad to help. This is how we all get more proficient with the new system. I really like the "Wiki" idea. It would be nice to have a central depository of information. Especially since the IntelliCenter will be Pentair's automation system for the future. I'm not sure if the TFP platform would support a Wiki function/Wiki-style posts. @Leebo would be the one to answer that question.

Regarding "Color Set" -- what does it even do? Picks the color the group turns on to? Again, that manual...
The IntelliCenter initially has to be told that "green" is green for example. Once you setup a LIGHT GROUP and have added the colors that you want. You need to push the "SET" button for each color. The system will go through all of the colors (you will hear the clicking of the relay as it turns on and off many times). Once it is done, the indicator light for that particular color will go OFF. Then manually press the individual color that you just set, and confirm it is on the correct color. It should be. If not, do it again. That should do it. Now do that for each color and you should be good to go. Let me know if this works for you.


Side note - have you found documentation on what these "other" things do in circuit groups? Aaah, they seem to line up with what you would want on a spa side remote... that would make sense. But I wonder what purpose would they serve in a feature group?


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That would be my guess regarding most of those that you have highlighted. There are some generic FEATURE CIRCUITS mixed in with the FEATURE CIRCUITS that you have created. Just allows you to be very creative in your scheduling of what you want your automation to do. You have 100 schedules that you can use to do just about anything. I have not used used ANY of the generic FEATURE CIRCUITS within my CIRCUIT GROUPS. I have named them other things so I can better utilize my Amazon Echo to give the IntelliCenter user-defined commands (she is a bit "touchy" about naming conventions).

Lastly - do you have an internal control panel or wireless remote? My question would be - does it duplicate (exactly) the experience at the touch panel, with all the "missing" stuff from the web/app? I chose not to buy one because I incorrectly assumed that there would be feature parity between the panel and web/app.
Tony
P.S. The snow melted... :_)
I do not have either the IntelliCenter Control system Indoor Control Panel (P/N 522035), the IntelliCenter Control System Wireless Control Panel (P/N 522036), the
SpaCommand Spa-Side Controller (P/N 521176), the QuickTouch Wireless Controller (P/N 521245) or the IntelliCenter Wireless Kit (P/N 522036) for that matter. I just use my iPhone, Web-Client, the System Control Panel or Amazon Echo (for commands only of course). So, I am not sure if any of them duplicate the control panel exactly. I know that the Indoor Control Panel has a USB port for uploading/downloading *CFG files and firmware. A great question for Pentair Tech Support. I also thought that what ever I could do at the panel that I could do at the Web-Client. And probably that will be the case if the future. So that is also why I did not spring for an Indoor Controller. If you call them (Pentair Tech Support) about this question (and to complain about the Web-Client) :p , please let us know what you find out about the remotes.

Glad to hear your snow is melting. That means :paddle: time soon.
Take care Tony,
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