IntelliCenter and SWCG Communication

hawkmoon7

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2020
136
Florida
C,

Did your IntelliCenter come with an internal SWCG power supply or do you have an external power supply?

Is the AC power to the SWCG's transformer wired through the Pump/Filter relay as required??

Thanks,

Jim R.
Can you explain why this is required? I have a problem in my Intellicenter with some sort of bug where switching between pool and spa schedules occasionally results in that relay not being activated in pool mode. This results in my chlorine dropping. The only fix seems to be leaving it hardwired to be on and relying on the flow switch to activate or deactivate it. I also have an issue where the INtellicenter "forgets" that the system configuration should be set to using the SWG in both Pool and SPA mode. It will periodically set it only for pool mode, and then when the spa circuit is on, it sets the output to none (even though it is hardwired to be on, chlorine output is set to off). This can only be corrected by changing the system configuration to re-set the SWG for pool AND spa.
 

Jimrahbe

Mod Squad
TFP Expert
LifeTime Supporter
Jul 7, 2014
27,606
Bedford, TX
Hawk,

I doubt you have a bug, maybe a programming/scheduling issue.. :scratch:

It is your pool and you can do what you want. Not powering your SWCG though the Pump/Filter relay is like riding around with the airbags turned off. You might be able to drive 100,000 mile with no issues. Then again you might not. :mrgreen:

Pentair requires that the SWCG transformer be connected to the load side of the Pump/Filter relay as the Primary safety device. The Secondary safety device is the flow switch. The reason for the two safety devices is that the cell can explode if it gets power when the pump is off. It does not happen often, but does happen and we have seen it several time over the past few years.

I am not a IntelliCenter guy, so let's see if we can get one of them on the line. Calling @Turbo1Ton ... Have you heard of the intermittent operation reported by the OP?


Hawk,

My guess is that you keep manually pushing buttons for things that are scheduled. Depending on when you do that, the schedule can get temporarily overridden and the egg-timer takes over. It should reset itself the next cycle.

Maybe there is an IntelliCenter issue that I do not understand, but running with the cell's Primary safety device off, just makes no sense to me.

Thanks,

Jim R.
 

rstrouse

Well-known member
Jun 17, 2020
560
California
Please make sure you are running the most current firmware and using IntelliCenter 2 to set your data for either the phone or web app. Your firmware version should be 1.064. If you are on the most recent version make sure you didn't install an IntelliChem on your system if you don't have one.
 
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Turbo1Ton

Gold Supporter
Dec 26, 2019
1,404
NE Oklahoma
Pool Size
14500
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
Yeah, unfortunately I have not heard of or seen any of the mentioned issues. Not saying they aren't happening, but I haven't noticed anything similar on my system. It does kind of sound like it may be related to some programming issues, but there are no programming settings that automatically adjust the SWCG output or turn that on/off.

Like @rstrouse suggested, please make sure you are running the latest firmware, using the www.intellicenter2.com web client, and have updated the app to the Intellicenter2 app on your smart device you use to connect to the panel with.

--Jeff
 

hawkmoon7

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2020
136
Florida
Thanks everyone. I'll keep it on the relay and monitor it. I'll also see if I can recreate the issue reliably. It has something to do between switching between spa and pool bodies (either from me, the schedules, or both).

I've seen where running a feature that has a pump speed keeps the pump running with the pool body (and SWG) off, depending on the pool running schedule. But I can't think of any reason the pool should show as running, while the pool pump relay is off.
 

hawkmoon7

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2020
136
Florida
I have narrowed down the circumstances where this happens. But I can't get it to reproduce the error consistently. Here's what I can say:

1. It has something to do with running a feature that uses the same pump as the "Pool" but the feature itself does not actually turn on the "Pool body" or requires the pool body to be on.

2. I can get the error when the Pool is on, and the feature is on.... then, the Pool is either turned off manually, per schedule, or by switching to Spa. However, the same Pump remains on as it is necessary for the Spa and/or the feature.

3. Then, the Pool gets turned on again... either manually or by schedule... It could be the Pool body itself that gets turned on, or a feature that uses the pool body. In such cases, the Pool body get's turned on, but the pool pump relay (that in my system, only powers the SWG) does NOT always get turned on with the pool. The end result is the Pool Body is shown as on, the Pool Pump relay is off, and thus my SWG is off during that time.

4. I'll also add that during Spa operation, the relay is on as SWG feeds the spa. So another way to look at this is when the SPA get's turned off, the relay get's turned off with it, but subsequently turning on the Pool body (under certain criteria) doesn't always turn that relay back on. I say this because my heater does this unpredictably too. In that the Intellicenter (NOT the heater's flow switch) will turn off the heater when switching between pool and spa (but not always). It does however turn itself on again after the set delay very reliably (if it happened to turn it off in between switching). But there seems to be logic in the INtellicenter that says, Spa Mode off thus Heater Mode Off... without thinking that the mode it's switching to (the Pool) will also need the Heater, and there isn't a need to turn it off.

I know this sounds like a lot of back and forth, but in my pool, it is all necessary to circulate water through all the pipes, returns and main drains.
 

hawkmoon7

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2020
136
Florida
I've simplified the criteria where the bug is reproduced. I have two schedules. Each turns on the "Pool" at different times. The first works as expected. The second turns on the pool pump, but not the pool relay. This happens *almost every time. Why, the schedule programming is the same.

I have identified that the problem seems to happen when I have a feature running that uses the pool pump, without necessarily requiring the "pool" to be on.

Chain of events that cause the error:

Schedule turns "Pool" on. SWG relay turns on.
Either a schedule or a person turns on a feature or circuit that uses the pool pump... said feature does not require the "Pool" to be on.
Schedule turns the "Pool" off. SWG relay turns off. Above described feature remains on. The pool pump therefore remains on.
Either a schedule or a person turns on the "Pool". Pump is already running, and "Pool" shows active. Pool Pump relay does not (always?) turn on.
 

Jimrahbe

Mod Squad
TFP Expert
LifeTime Supporter
Jul 7, 2014
27,606
Bedford, TX
Hawk,

I can't solve why it happens, but why turn off the Pool mode at all???

If you want to say run your pool from 8 am until 8 pm, why not just schedule Pool to be on 8 am until 8 pm. You can then schedule anything else at the same time, but I see no issues with having the "Pool" Circuit on all the time.

As an example.

Pool on from 8 am until 10 am
Cleaner on from 10 am until 11 am (This will cause the Pool circuit to be off from 10 am until 11 am)
Pool on from 11 am until 12 noon.

Pool on from 8 am until 12 noon (Pool circuit never shuts off)
Cleaner on from 10 am until 11 am (The cleaner still runs..)

I can't think of any reason that you need to shut "Pool" off.

Thanks,

Jim R.
 
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hawkmoon7

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2020
136
Florida
Hawk,

I can't solve why it happens, but why turn off the Pool mode at all???

If you want to say run your pool from 8 am until 8 pm, why not just schedule Pool to be on 8 am until 8 pm. You can then schedule anything else at the same time, but I see no issues with having the "Pool" Circuit on all the time.

As an example.

Pool on from 8 am until 10 am
Cleaner on from 10 am until 11 am (This will cause the Pool circuit to be off from 10 am until 11 am)
Pool on from 11 am until 12 noon.

Pool on from 8 am until 12 noon (Pool circuit never shuts off)
Cleaner on from 10 am until 11 am (The cleaner still runs..)

I can't think of any reason that you need to shut "Pool" off.

Thanks,

Jim R.
Good ideas. I do suspect there is a configuration to bypass this error. For me, the reason it switches is because I have a two-body system. So my "pool" switches to "spa" mode and back again on a daily basis to mix and circulate both bodies. Also, if we are using the pool and put on the spa jets manually, it will switch off of "pool" in favor of "spa". When it switches back, I NEED the SWG to switch back on as "pool" mode finishes cleaning, or my chlorine levels can quickly dip.

As you say, there is probably a way to circumvent this. But I haven't played with working around the problem until I fully understand what makes it consistently fail. I just can't believe it's random, but I can't always reproduce the error.
 

Jimrahbe

Mod Squad
TFP Expert
LifeTime Supporter
Jul 7, 2014
27,606
Bedford, TX
Hawk,

So, in "theory" the SWCG should run in both the Pool mode and the Spa mode. When you change from pool to spa, you don't turn off the pool and then select the spa, you just push the spa button, and the system does the rest.

If you have pool scheduled all day, that should not prevent you from switching to Spa anytime you want.

Try scheduling your Pool circuit for all day and the use you pool and spa as you normally would and see if the problem comes back. It can't hurt to try and maybe it will help you narrow in on the problem.

Not sure about the IntelliCenter, but with the EasyTouch, if you manually turn a scheduled circuit on or off, just depending on when you do it can cause the schedule to get confused. The manual tries to explain it, but it is written in "Pentair", so it is impossible for a human to understand. :mrgreen:

Thanks,

Jim R.
 

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PdInc

Active member
Apr 27, 2014
25
DFW, Texas
If you want to say run your pool from 8 am until 8 pm, why not just schedule Pool to be on 8 am until 8 pm. You can then schedule anything else at the same time, but I see no issues with having the "Pool" Circuit on all the time.

I was having similar issues with pool circuits not activating. The above suggestion works great - schedule "Pool" for the duration and anything that falls inside the window works fine.
 
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