IntelliCenter and MasterTemp 400 Communication

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RobertFlagg

RobertFlagg

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Feb 4, 2020
88
Roseville, Ca
Hi all, I have been researching the forums to find out the proper way to establish communications between the intellicenter and the mastertemp. The instructions are not 100% clear and I wanted to get some advice on the proper way to hook them together. I believe you just remove the jumper at the fireman's switch on the heater and run the two wires to the heater com port on the intellicenter board. Is that correct? Any polarity issues? Does anyone have pictures?

Thanks
 
900px-Pentair_MasterTemp_Firemans_Switch.jpg


The firemans switch is the two center bottom terminals with the yellow wires on the block below the Fenwal box. The right terminal has the fuse. You remove the jumper and run a wire from one fireman's switch terminal to the one connection of the J19 terminal in Easytouch and then a wire from the other J19 terminal back to the other fireman's switch terminal or similar connections in otehr automation controllers.

Pentair MasterTemp Heaters - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com www.troublefreepool.com

EasyTouch Control System: Insert the conductors into the GAS HEATER two-screw terminals (J19) on the motherboard.

IntelliTouch Control Personality circuit board: Insert the two conductors into the GAS HEATER (J30) two-screw terminal on the left side of the Personality circuit board.

On the inside of the door to the automation box there should be a diagram that shows the two terminal connection labeled "Gas Heater".
 
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Got it done, once I figured out where that Fenwal box was, it was easy to cut and splice into the fireman switch jumper. In the manual it mentioned a three wire communication option between the IntelliCenter and the heater. Anyone do that? Is it worth it?
 
I also have Intellicenter (1.047) and MasterTemp Heater. Wiring is done as described above (Firemans switch to Gas Heater Com Port J2 on Intellicenter board). Works fine but would like the benefits of the Intellicenter communications/notification for heater.

Per installation instructions:
I am going to install 3 strand 22awg wire between Intellicenter and MasterTemp RS-485 ports soon.
There is a jumper on MasterTemp to switch from two-wire to three-wire communications.
And then replace the jumper on the firemans switch terminals.
Then disconnected the two wire on the heater com port and install the three wires onto the IntelliCenter RS-485 port.

I'll let you know how it goes.

Update: bad news----when I opened up the MasterTemp it turns out there was no RS-485 port. Manual says there is -even a diagram on page 40- but no RS-485 connection.

To say I'm disappointed is an understatement.

1615928405016.png
 
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Further update: contacted Pentair support and they said MasterTemp doesn't support RS-485 communications "yet." It can attach to IntelliCenter via two-wire (dumb connection) or via three-wire (actually it's two-wire connect SPA or POOL and COMMON (bottom left of pic below) to the Heater COM port on Intellicenter then move Jumper to three-wire position but still not IntelliCenter monitoring.)
No comments about installation manual showing a RS-485 port while they acknowledge that the MasterTemp doesn't have RS-485 port.
Pentair support tech M.B.: "This product is not available yet." 9AM 3/18/21.

Compare the diagram above to the control board below....notice something missing?
1616093844399.png
 
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My 2020 built MT does not have the comm port either.
 

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I am following this. It would be really nice to have the diagnostics transmitted to the display so you dont have to bend upside down to read 4 flashing LEDs. Perhaps this future functionality will drop with the modbus valves :)
 
For awareness, I found this as well.


I also noticed that you can download 1.047 firmware from pentair's website. The release log shows that connected heaters are included. I updated my firmware, and indeed, you can select a pentair mastertemp heater with modbus addresses now. Now to see who the guinea pig will be to buy the upgrade kid. Would be helpful if an answer could be gotten from pentair.
 
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WinManx2000 said:
For awareness, I found this as well.


I also noticed that you can download 1.047 firmware from pentair's website. The release log shows that connected heaters are included. I updated my firmware, and indeed, you can select a pentair mastertemp heater with modbus addresses now. Now to see who the guinea pig will be to buy the upgrade kid. Would be helpful if an answer could be gotten from pentair.
Click to expand...
Great find. I really would like to do this. Looks like from my searching that they have not yet released the upgrade kit.
 
I've contacted Pentair to see if I can sniff out any further info on the kit but my guy is on vacation for a couple of weeks so I probably won't hear something for weeks. Maybe they have a target date for release of this MasterTemp Combo Conversion/Replacement Kit, that he might be able to share. 🤞

I've seen on other threads where there are questions as to what advantages if any are gained by having the MasterTemp connected to the 485 bus versus just using the fireman's switch. My guess is probably not much if you are employing one of the *Touch automation systems although I can't say for sure.

But if you ask an IntelliCenter user who has an UltraTemp (comes from the factory with RS-485 capability) and they are using some of the embedded heater features built into the IntelliCenter programming, then you might get a different answer.

1. Temperature control is via RS-485.
2. The heater bypass valve is controlled when heat is called for (no need for macros in this respect).
3. Improved heater delay functionality.
4. Pump speed is also tied to heater control as well.

Check out @Zaffor 's great discovery.

Our First Pool
Our First Pool

I can't say for sure that these features will be the same with the MasterTemp but if I had to guess, I would guess that they will be. Only time will tell once someone gets their hands on one of these conversion kits and gets to play guinea pig for the rest of us. :goodjob:

r.
 
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MyAZPool said:
I've contacted Pentair to see if I can sniff out any further info on the kit but my guy is on vacation for a couple of weeks so I probably won't hear something for weeks. Maybe they have a target date for release of this MasterTemp Combo Conversion/Replacement Kit, that he might be able to share. 🤞

I've seen on other threads where there are questions as to what advantages if any are gained by having the MasterTemp connected to the 485 bus versus just using the fireman's switch. My guess is probably not much if you are employing one of the *Touch automation systems although I can't say for sure.

But if you ask an IntelliCenter user who has an UltraTemp (comes from the factory with RS-485 capability) and they are using some of the embedded heater features built into the IntelliCenter programming, then you might get a different answer.

1. Temperature control is via RS-485.
2. The heater bypass valve is controlled when heat is called for (no need for macros in this respect).
3. Improved heater delay functionality.
4. Pump speed is also tied to heater control as well.

Check out @Zaffor 's great discovery.

Our First Pool
Our First Pool

I can't say for sure that these features will be the same with the MasterTemp but if I had to guess, I would guess that they will be. Only time will tell once someone gets their hands on one of these conversion kits and gets to play guinea pig for the rest of us. :goodjob:

r.
Click to expand...
Yeah, this is more of a tinkering thing than anything else. I do see the added benefit of being able to read all of the diagnostic codes as opposed to pulling the panel off of the heater, laying upside down and watching for flashing lights. I need to go add the heater in and see what codes are able to be monitored. I have some electronics gremlins in my heater that is leaning me towards a flame control replacement. I am trying to hold out to get the new goodies vs putting the old back in. Why not? LOL.
 
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All,
I just heard back from the Pentair Heater Group Product Manager..
He really did a great job of clarifying the questions that we had on this topic so here goes.

1. MasterTemp Combo Conversion/Replacement Kit -
- This kit is an unreleased bundle that includes all 4 parts that would be required to convert an older MasterTemp to have the newer RS-485 features that Pentair introduced as a running change this year.
- Pentair does currently sell each of the four parts individually (a la carte), but once again, the bundle kit is not released yet.
- Although converting an older MasterTemp to RS-485 is technically possible, it is highly discouraged and here is why. One of the required steps would be to replace the whole wiring harness inside the heater, which would take a really long time as it requires removing and replacing every single wire connection at every terminal, every sensor, every connection point to include the ignition control module, control board and the membrane keypad. He goes on to point out that it would take even a seasoned pool professional a long time to complete the job…

In summary, If someone has an older MasterTemp, then purchasing the kit (when it becomes available), will not convert the heater to use the advantages of RS-485 unless they were to remove and replace the entire wiring harness and components as well?
As he put it: “the juice is not worth the squeeze”

2. Newer MasterTemp Heaters -
- Any MasterTemp heater with a manufacture date after May 15, 2021, and has a "6-button" membrane keypad (with a MENU button), then those MasterTemp heaters DO have RS-485 capability built in.

3. MasterTemp versus UltraTemp -
While I had the Product Manager online, I decided to pose the question on why someone would choose one of the newer MasterTemp heaters over the UltraTemp Heat Pump.
He provided some good information which he agreed may be shared.

"UltraTemp Heat Pumps and MasterTemp Gas Heaters are very different technologies. Heat pump technology is the most efficient way to heat a pool, however, the lower BTU rating of heat pumps means that it can take longer to heat the pool to a desired temperature. Heat pumps also have reduced heating performance when the ambient air temps are very low (when ambient temp drops below about 50F.) This is because heat pumps do not make heat; they simply capture the free heat from the air and move it into the water. Heat pumps are typically sized from 70,000 BTU to 140,000 BTU. Gas heaters work well in all ambient air temps, and they have higher BTU output (commonly up to 400,000 BTU.) Gas heaters are great if you want to heat water up quickly in all weather conditions, but a gas heater is much less efficient than a heat pump."

The US Dept of Energy has some good, unbiased articles about choosing the right kind of pool heating equipment for your needs:
Swimming Pool Heating

Here’s a blog article from pool equipment retailer In The Swim that sums it up fairly well, especially the comparison table and the two lists of “best choice” points, located about halfway down the page:
Pool Heaters: Heat Pumps vs. Gas Pool Heaters | InTheSwim Pool Blog

Hope this helps to clear up any misconceptions regarding converting an older MasterTemp to RS-485 capable.
r.
 
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MyAZPool said:
All,
I just heard back from the Pentair Heater Group Product Manager..
He really did a great job of clarifying the questions that we had on this topic so here we go.

1. MasterTemp Combo Conversion/Replacement Kit -
- This kit is an unreleased bundle that includes all 4 parts that would be required to convert an older MasterTemp to have the newer RS-485 features that Pentair introduced as a running change this year.
- Pentair does currently sell each of the four parts individually (a la carte), but once again, the bundle kit is not released yet.
- Although converting an older MasterTemp to RS-485 is technically possible, it is highly discouraged and here is why. One of the required steps would be to replace the whole wiring harness inside the heater, which would take a really long time as it requires removing and replacing every single wire connection at every terminal, every sensor, every connection point to include the ignition control module, control board and the membrane keypad. He goes on to point out that it would take even a seasoned pool professional a long time to complete the job…

In summary, If someone has an older MasterTemp, then purchasing the kit (when it becomes available), will not convert the heater to use the advantages of RS-485 unless they were to remove and replace the entire wiring harness and components as well?
As he put it: “the juice is not worth the squeeze”

2. Newer MasterTemp Heaters -
- Any MasterTemp heater with a manufacture date after May 15, 2021, and has a "6-button" membrane keypad (with a MENU button), then those MasterTemp heaters DO have RS-485 capability built in.

3. MasterTemp versus UltraTemp -
While I had the Product Manager online, I decided to pose the question on why someone would choose one of the newer MasterTemp heaters over the UltraTemp Heat Pump.
He provided some good information which he agreed may be shared.

"UltraTemp Heat Pumps and MasterTemp Gas Heaters are very different technologies. Heat pump technology is the most efficient way to heat a pool, however, the lower BTU rating of heat pumps means that it can take longer to heat the pool to a desired temperature. Heat pumps also have reduced heating performance when the ambient air temps are very low (when ambient temp drops below about 50F.) This is because heat pumps do not make heat; they simply capture the free heat from the air and move it into the water. Heat pumps are typically sized from 70,000 BTU to 140,000 BTU. Gas heaters work well in all ambient air temps, and they have higher BTU output (commonly up to 400,000 BTU.) Gas heaters are great if you want to heat water up quickly in all weather conditions, but a gas heater is much less efficient than a heat pump."

The US Dept of Energy has some good, unbiased articles about choosing the right kind of pool heating equipment for your needs:
Swimming Pool Heating

Here’s a blog article from pool equipment retailer In The Swim that sums it up fairly well, especially the comparison table and the two lists of “best choice” points, located about halfway down the page:
Pool Heaters: Heat Pumps vs. Gas Pool Heaters | InTheSwim Pool Blog

Hope this helps to clear up any misconceptions regarding converting an older MasterTemp to RS-485 capable.
r.
Click to expand...
Super helpful. So, to clarify, does “older MasterTemp” mean anything with a manufacture date prior to March of this year? If so, it’s curious that they would release such a kit if the juice is not worth the squeeze. Thanks so much for all you do to help the community with this stuff!
 
If the bundle kit included everything required, wiring harness included, I'm not sure I would say the juice is not worth the squeeze. I've had the heater fully opened up and I can't imagine it taking more than an hour to swap the wiring harness. That being said, maybe I'm not a "seasoned pool professional" but there's not that many connections. I may be biased because of my background in industrial controls for combustion equipment, but there is not that much there. Couldn't be that hard to swap out.

The one question I have that I didn't see answered is what is the benefit of the RS-485 communication? If it is something trivial, then of course it wouldn't be worth it. But if it was significant information that is made available, that could make the trade off worth it.

For example, for some reason my MasterTemp heater has decided to start resetting the maximum 104F setpoint so that the heater will not actually turn on when the system calls for it. I have to manually go over to the heater and increase the heater setpoint. Then the intellicenter will take over and actually turn on the heater. If I was able to check this via a remote connection, that would be beneficial.

Interested to see where this goes. If they ever release the kit, I may update. Not certain at this moment.

--Jeff
 
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This question kept nagging at me and so I went back to the Product Manager asking for further clarification. Here is what I got.

1. The kit that will be released in a single bundle sometime in the future contains the following items. All of these items can be purchased separately now.
- Wiring Harness
- Ignition Control Module
- Control Board
- Membrane Keypad

2. "In the future, we plan to release a kit that includes all four of those parts in a single bundle. At that point, a person could upgrade an older heater by buying the kit/bundle of four parts (they would order one part number and receive one box that contains all four parts.)"

3. "Theoretically, you could today order part #1 & #2 & #3 & #4 individually (you would order four separate part numbers and get four separate boxes) and accomplish the same thing, but like I said earlier, we expect very few people to go through the trouble of taking apart an older heater to install all four parts just for the sake of doing an elective upgrade, which is why the four part kit/bundle remains unreleased."

That is the clarification I received which I think makes this whole thing a bit more clear.

Thanks...
r.
 
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Pentair should provide the ability to upgrade just the control board at no cost to people who bought the MasterTemp in the last year based on their product sales literature and documentation that said that it would offer full feature/function integration with Intellicenter only to find out their brochures and documentation were incorrect. No one likes being duped.
 
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