Installing Easy Touch... what size wire from main panel?

Dec 8, 2009
12
#1
What size wire from main panel to the Easy Touch? What size breaker?
It will be mounted about 35' away and there is already a 1/2" emt line running out there.
Thanks.
 

bk406

Well-known member
Dec 3, 2009
2,690
Central Massachusetts
#2
Depends on how much power you want out to you Easytouch. They are rated for up to 150 amps. I have 100 amps run to mine with 1/0 aluminum. You can use #2 copper, but its more expensive.

You could run 60 amps with #6 copper. Thats the minimum i'd run to an Easytouch. In either case, the 1/2" conduit you have is not even close to being adequate. The NEC dictates conduit fill requirements. For that type of service you need at east 1 1/2", and i'd even go 2".
 
Dec 8, 2009
12
#3
There are 2 LED pool lights, 1 VS pump, 1 spa pump, gas heater, future SWG, and low voltage lighting to be put into the
Easy Touch. Problem about running conduit is that its all newer concrete from the panel to the equipment. 1-1/2" to 2" seems overkill? The knockout for the power line in on the Easy Touch is 1" so I see no need to go larger? Can the #6 be run in above ground conduit from the Panel to the Easy Touch?
 

bk406

Well-known member
Dec 3, 2009
2,690
Central Massachusetts
#4
It may sound like overkill, but the NEC dictates conduit size in relation to the number of conductors and wire size.

After I got home i looked at my conduit since I was doing it from memory in the previous post. I used 1/0 aluminum for 100 amp service and used 1 1/4" PVC conduit (the grey stuff). Technically, your supposed to use 1 1/2" for 1/0, but I used a bit smaller ground so i used 1 1/4" conduit. As for the knockouts, your right, the biggest is 1". Kind of short sighted if you ask me since your using the box as a subpanel. I just used a 1 1/4" -1" reducer to connect it to the box.

In your case, I'd put a 100 amp breaker in the main, run #3 copper for hot 1, hot 2, and neutral, and #4 copper for ground, all stranded THHN/THWN wire. That way, you can use a 1" conduit. Since your only 35 feet, #3 copper is fine. I used bigger wire since i had to go a little over 100 feet. You can run that grey PVC conduit above ground, but it has to be secured to a wall or structure. Also, I'd put some latex paint on it so the sunlight wont damage it over time. You can run above ground EMT, but it still needs to be secured and it's harder to work with.
 

CraigMW

LifeTime Supporter
May 19, 2011
696
Orange County, CA
#6
We ran a 125 foot 1.25 inch schedule 80 gray PVC conduit 18" below ground from the house panel to the back of the pool house, with a 60A breaker at the main panel and a main lug sub-panel. For this, we have four 6 gauge THHN/THWN-2 (dual rated for wet or dry) wires in the conduit, 2 hots (red and black), a neutral and a ground. Ground and neutral are on separate bars (do not mix ground and neutral at a sub-panel, per the NEC), with an additional grounding rod behind the pool house. We have not yet purchased an automation panel, just a standard sub-panel, though this will eventually change when I figure out what to purchase. GFCI protected circuit breakers for each circuit are in the sub-panel. Unfortunately, 1/2 inch conduit is not going to accomodate wiring for your needs, as a 1/2 conduit can at max accomodate 4 14 gauge wires (e.g. 15 amp max). You could do a 50A run using 8 gauge wires in a 1 inch conduit.

Here are tables to determine conduit size and wire size for your needs (based on the 2008 NEC):

http://www.electrical-designer-guide.co ... -size.html
http://www.electrical-designer-guide.com/wire-size.html
 

bk406

Well-known member
Dec 3, 2009
2,690
Central Massachusetts
#9
Craig,

An Easytouch automation panel IS a subpanel with 8 breaker slots.
Bottom line is the OP can run 3 conductors using #3 copper, and one ground using #4 in 1 inch conduit (PVC) attached to the house. (Craig, your using the wrong table for conduit fill. For schedule 40 PVC, which is all he needs, the proper table is C10, not C8. C8 is for EMT).

He can run #3 copper and #4 ground with a 100 amp breaker in his main in 1" PVC and be completely code compliant. I like to run as much power as I can. You never know what you might need in the future. It's just as easy to run a little bigger wire up front.
Let's don't go all TFP difficult (like I know we can, LOL). Its a pretty straightforward project.
 

bk406

Well-known member
Dec 3, 2009
2,690
Central Massachusetts
#10
bk406 said:
PoolGuyNJ said:
BEar in mind the 150 Amp rating is at 120VAC. At 240, its only 75 amps

Scott
I'm not remotely understanding what your talking about :mrgreen:

Any electrical panel is rated for the amount of power that can be distributed through the panel based on lug size and breaker bus size. The Easytouch panel is rated for 125 amps (not 150, i was mistaken). That means you can feed the panel with up to 125 amps from the main. At what voltage you pull that current depends on what you have hooked up to the panel. The Easytouch is fed with 2 legs of power at 120 volts each, hence 240 volts. How much current and ultimately how many watts can be pulled depends on the wire size and breaker size run from the main. You can pull 100 amps thru a 14 guage wire, but not for long until it burns completly up. If you run #3 wire from a 100 amp breaker in the main, you can pull up to 30kW (really about 25kW if you de-rate) and not melt the wire or trip the breaker over that 35 feet. A pool pump that pulls 1500 watts will use around 13 amps, bit if wired at 240, it uses half the current. Thats whay you can use smaller wire for the same size motor if you wire it for 240 v as opposed to 120 V. You can power the Easytouch at 24,000 W with a 100 amp breaker , or use a 60 amp breaker in the main and power it at 14,400 watts. It really depends on whats hooked up to the panel.
 

CraigMW

LifeTime Supporter
May 19, 2011
696
Orange County, CA
#11
bk406 said:
Craig,

An Easytouch automation panel IS a subpanel with 8 breaker slots.
Bottom line is the OP can run 3 conductors using #3 copper, and one ground using #4 in 1 inch conduit (PVC) attached to the house. (Craig, your using the wrong table for conduit fill. For schedule 40 PVC, which is all he needs, the proper table is C10, not C8. C8 is for EMT).

He can run #3 copper and #4 ground with a 100 amp breaker in his main in 1" PVC and be completely code compliant. I like to run as much power as I can. You never know what you might need in the future. It's just as easy to run a little bigger wire up front.
Let's don't go all TFP difficult (like I know we can, LOL). Its a pretty straightforward project.
BK: Thanks for the info on PVC, good to know the differences. But, the OP described having 1/2" EMT, so I wanted the OP to understand that he could only safely run 4 x 14 gauge wires. I'm really not trying to make things confusing, only to emphasize that new conduit will be needed. Regardless of what size PVC conduit he runs, he's going to need to dig a new trench and run new conduit; 1/2" EMT is not going to work for the loads he describes. The OP also asked if above ground conduit would be okay. I guess this would be a matter for his local building code, since there are apparently some types of conduit that can be run above ground.

BTW, I know that an EasyTouch or Intellitouch panel can serve as the subpanel, but thanks for the clarification.
 

bk406

Well-known member
Dec 3, 2009
2,690
Central Massachusetts
#12
CraigMW said:
Regardless of what size PVC conduit he runs, he's going to need to dig a new trench and run new conduit;.
He doesnt have to dig. He can run the PVC above ground (or EMT for that matter) as along as he attaches it to a structure. NEC says you can. I've never seen a JHA that wouldnt let you do it. Only restriction is some JHA might require schedule 80 outside, but most will let you use schedule 40 if in an area not subject to physical damage.

I also told him he couldnt use the 1/2"

bk406 said:
. In either case, the 1/2" conduit you have is not even close to being adequate. The NEC dictates conduit fill requirements.

I only said lets dont make it complictaed because i've beeen on TFP long enough to know that some of us can go on and on, for pages and pick over the last bit of minutia, and confuse an OP beyond belief when the answer is really straightforward :mrgreen:
 

CraigMW

LifeTime Supporter
May 19, 2011
696
Orange County, CA
#13
bk406 said:
I only said lets dont make it complictaed because i've beeen on TFP long enough to know that some of us can go on and on, for pages and pick over the last bit of minutia, and confuse an OP beyond belief when the answer is really straightforward :mrgreen:
Too true! :oops:
 
Dec 8, 2009
12
#14
Let me add the power needs from the new Easy Touch 8.
There are (2) LED 120v pool lights, (1) 240v Variable Speed Filter pump, (1) 240v 1hp spa pump, gas heater, future 240v SWG
This will be the MAX the ET sub panel will ever have.

So I see we need at least 4 #6 copper stranded wires for 2 hots, 1 ground, and a common? This can go in 1-1/4" grey pvc. I will have a few 90* corners. I will use a pul box type 90* elbow for 1 of those. Its too bad I cant trench and bury this new line. All that fresh concrete. What size breaker should I go with in the main? Does it have to be GFCI breaker? WIll the breakers in the Easy Touch have to be GFCI.... besides the lighing which will go through the gfci recepticle.

Thanks
 

bk406

Well-known member
Dec 3, 2009
2,690
Central Massachusetts
#15
#6 wire equals a 60 amp breaker, no bigger
#3 wire equals a 100 amp breaker

No, the breaker in the main is a regular breaker. The pumps, and any pool light need a GFCI breaker. Any outlets just need a GFI recepticle.
BTW, if you run #6 wire, you can use 1" conduit (PVC).
 

rhumbaclave

LifeTime Supporter
Jul 9, 2011
81
#18
Thanks for starting this thread. I am in the process of wiring my Easy Touch as well. By in "process" I mean it will be done by spring. :lol: I am only doing the 60amps and per my electrical inspector 1" schedule 40 pvc was fine for my 4 #4 wires. But now I am doubting that I will have enough amps. Please chime in on my setup and amps. I will be hiring an electrician to check everything when I am done.

1 two speed 2hp wisperflo pump
1 400btu minimax heater
1 120v intelibright
I was planning on doing the GFI outlet on the side of the ET
Maybe a flood light

Will 60 amps be enough?
 

bk406

Well-known member
Dec 3, 2009
2,690
Central Massachusetts
#19
You should be ok with 60. If someone has no heater and even remotely might put in a heat pump, I always recommend 100 amps. Your gas heater uses a grand total of 1 amp at 240 V so thas not an issue. If your running #4 wire, you can put an 80 amp breaker on that depending on how long your run is to the ET box.

When you guys get to the point of wiring up the box,, post back. There's more than one way to configure things, a few better than others.