IG New Pool Build underway - - Decking complete, almost Pebble/Plaster time - PICTURES 💦

kimkats

Mod Squad
LifeTime Supporter
Jul 10, 2012
47,371
Tallahassee, FL
You got it right with the "landing step" idea. Yes they can form it and just pour more concrete. It is not structural so biggie. If they want to drill to add rebar between the two steps where they are joined that would be the cherry on top!

What you are seeing is VERY normal on the shell. No worries there!
 
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spd500

Well-known member
Jul 20, 2020
564
Houston, TX
Why have the spillover on the WF pump? Is there an advantage to doing it that way? Mine is controlled by the primary pool pump.

The Gunite on your pool doesn't look like it is really leaking any more than any other I have seen, ours did the same thing until it was plastered.
 

Riddler0520

Well-known member
Jul 26, 2020
119
Charlotte, NC
You got it right with the "landing step" idea. Yes they can form it and just pour more concrete. It is not structural so biggie. If they want to drill to add rebar between the two steps where they are joined that would be the cherry on top!

What you are seeing is VERY normal on the shell. No worries there!
Than goodness - thank you
I’ll let you know what we decide with the step

thank you all so much - this has been process for sure and frankly, this site has been my sanity check throughout - everyone here is just wonderful offering help

we are still uncertain on pebble color mainly due to all the pics we see are in full sun and figuring out do we select the color based on part shade since this is our yard most of the day or the full sun look as that’s only about 3 hrs
Decisions Decisions
 

Riddler0520

Well-known member
Jul 26, 2020
119
Charlotte, NC
Why have the spillover on the WF pump? Is there an advantage to doing it that way? Mine is controlled by the primary pool pump.

The Gunite on your pool doesn't look like it is really leaking any more than any other I have seen, ours did the same thing until it was plastered.
I’ll confirm just to make sure my understanding is right

I know when we initially said we wanted a 5ft wide spillover and for it to have that water sheer effect over the spa (not a trickle) PB said he wanted a separate return in spa (in addition to jets), to create enough water volume to push that sheer over a 5’ wide spa with a 4’ drop - thought that’s why he said that’s why he wanted the WF pump to do that

not sure if that’s accurate but it seemed to make sense to me 🤷‍♂️
I’ll ask again just to make sure
 

spd500

Well-known member
Jul 20, 2020
564
Houston, TX
This is with my pool pump returning 50% to the spa and 50% to the pool and te pump running on medium speed. If you want I can take a pic with it running on high and only going to the spa. I can measure, but I think my spillover was over 5 feet.
1603399080324.png
 
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Riddler0520

Well-known member
Jul 26, 2020
119
Charlotte, NC
This is with my pool pump returning 50% to the spa and 50% to the pool and te pump running on medium speed. If you want I can take a pic with it running on high and only going to the spa. I can measure, but I think my spillover was over 5 feet.
View attachment 166600
Beautiful spa
That would be great if you wouldn’t mind - only diff in spillover I can see is the design is a bit diff

attached is the look I’m going for - PB is coming by tomorrow so I can clarify with him as well and report back EC641D32-BED8-4DF3-B9DC-D697458F0344.jpeg
 

Robtown

Bronze Supporter
Jul 16, 2020
97
The Woodlands, TX
I’m not an expert by any means and have just been learning about pool related pumps for the last month or 2 in preparation for my pool. I’m not trying to be a downer either but I doubt you will get that find of flow from a water feature pump (especially if the flow is split to bubblers and running at the same time).

To get that effect over a 4” spillway would probably take over 100 GPM. Maybe 30 GPM per foot or 120 GPM total?

I guess if you had the water feature pump pulling from the pool, and the pool/spa pump pulling from the pool in Spillway mode, depending on the size of the plumbing and location of the equipment, you could get some pretty strong flow and could work.

I worry about the pressure required to push the water up that high since the spa is 4 feet above the pool. Answers to these questions will help...

Where is your equipment located (left side from the pool as you look at the house or right, hopefully left side as that side appears to be more level with the pool/spa)?
How long is the plumbing run and what’s the elevation change?
What is the diameter of the pipe running to the spa and the water feature return in the spa?
What pumps are you using and can you pull the manual for the flow rates?


By comparison, I needed to get about 150GPM to my spa for the 6 JetArrays I had installed. I had to put them on a separate pump so not to hit the max flow rates of my equipment, IIRC filter (120 GPM), heater (90 GPM), SWCG (105 GPM).

I Installed a 32” channel drain capable of about 300GPM with 3 x 2.5” plumbing lines on the suction side (1 to the pool/spa pump for heater,chlorinator, filtration, and 2 to the JetArrays pump). I then have a IntelliFlo XF pump with all 3” plumbing and valves and 3” return to the spa with about 40’ head. I’ll be able to get 150 GPM with the pump running at about 3,000 rpm.
 
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spd500

Well-known member
Jul 20, 2020
564
Houston, TX
Beautiful spa
That would be great if you wouldn’t mind - only diff in spillover I can see is the design is a bit diff

attached is the look I’m going for - PB is coming by tomorrow so I can clarify with him as well and report back

Thank you

The tile guy was out this morning to make a few corrections on the waterfall and I will have to keep it off until this evening for grout to dry, I will try to get you that pic when I can start it back up.

I like the looks of the one you attached, that is very unique. I would guess that the overflow on that design is not only having the waterflow to feed it, but also having the correct overhang on the tile at the leading edge of the spillover. I would try to find someone who has built one like it to see what they suggest.

Pool Builders seem to always say they can do something and then try to figure out how to actually do it after the contract is signed and unfortunately you will not be able to test the waterfall until after plaster and it is too late in the game to repair tile not installed correctly.
 
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Riddler0520

Well-known member
Jul 26, 2020
119
Charlotte, NC
Have a Q about backfilling plumbing trenches

PB agreed and suggested he wants to remove most of the dirt mound you see in image from plumbing trenches and backfill with gravel and clean topsoil, or sand where decking will go

Problem is that you can kind of see the entrance to the yard from gate (removed panel)
PB logically states some dirt will need to go in to drive machine in there to haul away dirt

That makes sense but want to make sure we do it smart and need some ideas from the pros ?? Does the attached image work or do you need more to offer advice ?

I think the main issue is entering the yard and that first straight away, once they get in and further down yard theres room to the left of the mound to maneuver

Thanks

This work and surface prep will occur next week to get ready for decking around pool (as imaged in rendering)... I know PB mentioned like 6” of ABC compacted as base for pavers
68018ED5-0F4D-40AF-BC84-095C4288C96D.jpeg
E2111864-A426-4E44-B1E6-58C43AF8211A.jpeg
 
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Rich D

Bronze Supporter
Aug 3, 2018
960
MA
Problem is that you can kind of see the entrance to the yard from gate (removed panel)
PB logically states some dirt will need to go in to drive machine in there to haul away dirt
Not really sure what the question is. You want to put sand around the plumbing to protect it being sure they tamp sand under the pipes to take out any sags and properly support the pipes, then place place the gravel on top of that compacted in lifts. To get the materials into the trench you simply start from the pad end and work your way in. Once the trench is backfilled you can then remove the extra material from the side of the trench. You also want the plumbing to have a pressure test on it while backfilling.
 

Riddler0520

Well-known member
Jul 26, 2020
119
Charlotte, NC
Not really sure what the question is. You want to put sand around the plumbing to protect it being sure they tamp sand under the pipes to take out any sags and properly support the pipes, then place place the gravel on top of that compacted in lifts. To get the materials into the trench you simply start from the pad end and work your way in. Once the trench is backfilled you can then remove the extra material from the side of the trench. You also want the plumbing to have a pressure test on it while backfilling.
Sorry Rich
I wasn’t clear

the main Q is around access to the rear yard due to existing trench - they can’t get any machinery back there to lay sand or alike without filling in some of the trench with existing dirt to drive equipment in and thru

I think you are suggesting for the PB crew to hand wheel barrow the sand and gravel in for the ditch and build a strong enough base for machinery to ride over - that seems like a lot of work and not sure how PB will respond to that request

what if no decking (just grass) will be from pad, thru gate and probably the first 25’ or so before you get to the area where decking will go around front perimeter

how thick/deep do you think it needs to be on top of plumbing before any large equipment should ride over top ?

thank you
 

Rich D

Bronze Supporter
Aug 3, 2018
960
MA
the main Q is around access to the rear yard due to existing trench - they can’t get any machinery back there to lay sand or alike without filling in some of the trench with existing dirt to drive equipment in and thru
Still a bit fuzzy. Are you saying they need equipment and materials out by the pool before the trench is filled in?

I think you are suggesting for the PB crew to hand wheel barrow the sand and gravel in for the ditch and build a strong enough base for machinery to ride over
Nope, not wheelbarrows. Use skid steer to bucket material to trench. Dump in 2 buckets of Sand and shovel down the trench a bit then compact, then 2 buckets of gravel and compact then final layer of gravel and compact. Just do this untill you get by the tight spot. A mini excavator could be used on the side of the trench to move the material down the trench and save some labor.

What is the PB suggesting? Is it simply pull the clay into the trench without sanding the pipes and without compacting in lifts?

what if no decking (just grass) will be from pad, thru gate and probably the first 25’ or so before you get to the area where decking will go around front perimeter
I would still recommend sanding the pipes first, you would not be able to compact that site material with a plate compactor, you would need a sheep's foot roller and even that would have difficulty this time of year because of wet conditions. So now think about trying to get equipment and materials over this soggy trench for the remainder of the job. You still need a good solid access for the remainder of the build.


What I have done in the past in a tight green area like that is to simply bring in a bucket of sand to bed the pipes down the trench about 10' then fill the rest wit all sand and no compaction. Do this untill you Can get by the tight spot and remove excess material then just dig out the extra sand and use it further down the trench and replace it with gravel. Seems a bit counter productive but it saves a lot of labor and collapsed trenches and digging it back takes very little time with a mini excavator.
 

Rich D

Bronze Supporter
Aug 3, 2018
960
MA
Seems a bit counter productive but it saves a lot of labor and collapsed trenches and digging it back takes very little time with a mini excavator.
Disclaimer.... This of course requires a skilled operator not to dig back up your plumbing. Where you are not really looking for 95% compaction you can leave plenty of sand over the plumbing so there should not be a issue ... :cool:
 

Riddler0520

Well-known member
Jul 26, 2020
119
Charlotte, NC
Still a bit fuzzy. Are you saying they need equipment and materials out by the pool before the trench is filled in?
If you look at the pad picture I outlined in red the fence panel that was removed with the access they have used - the plumbing trench goes right through it now
The second image red line near where the man is, is the approx location where decking will start, so the trench leading up to him will be grass

PB says this:
“I want to remove all the dirt mounds (especially where decking will go) and replace with sand and gravel, but I’ve fill in the trenches near pad, gate and where grass will be with the dirt we pulled out so I can get the skid steer back here to work the trench near and around perimeter”

does that help answer your Q and better explain the situation - basically we have mounds of dirt going all around the side and even the top of pool and somehow the Skid has to be able to get back there to work (remove and replace)
He seems more concerned around the area where decking will go and less concerned around what will just be fill/grass
 

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Rich D

Bronze Supporter
Aug 3, 2018
960
MA
does that help answer your Q and better explain the situation
Yes, I was misinterpreting his proposed approach. I thought he was wanting to put gravel in trench even in the green areas and you were questioning how to fill the trench without access to the side of the trench. Which I would highly recommend instead of the virgin soil. It appears to be all clay and this might make the trench very soft for the remainder of the build a wheeled skid steer with a load could potentially sink down far enough to damage the plumbing.

So to get back to the original question you seemed concerned about backfilling the trench so they can have access to the back yard. I am not clear on what those concerns are.. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 

Riddler0520

Well-known member
Jul 26, 2020
119
Charlotte, NC
Did you ever get the wick drain in out to the creek bed?
I believe so - maybe not exactly how you described but hopefully close to it

he installed a perimeter drain around the back side of the pool when all the tranches were there after Gunite and he laid down small amount of gravel for a base and then a drain pipe on top of it(near the bottom of the trench/close to bottom of pool) then laid down near 16 ton of gravel to complete the backfill - he ran that pipe out to adjacent creek
I don’t know how much the pipe will help in itself vs all that gravel I would think should also help as a natural drain vs water logged clay
He hasn’t done this yet but he is talking about for surface water dropping in a few catch basins and run that pipe out to creek as well - backside of pool if you recall is no decking, probably will just have about 3ft wide decorative stone barrier so I don’t have grass (and clipping) right next to pool coping.

how does that sound to you ?PB then after we dug trenches for plumbing then started the discussion about how he really didn’t want to use that mushy grey/orange clay even to back fill where grass/decorative stone would be and replace with more gravel and fresh topsoil

hence this current thread as we have all these trenches and no a lot of room for Skid to do its thing