I’m just curious how you would know if the temperature sensor inside the SWG is off by an amount say 3-10 deg. When I look at my ScreenLogic I see the temp but I’m assuming that’s from the Intelliflow. Reason I ask is can you damage the SWG when all the lights are green and it’s making chlorine but in reality the temp sensor is off by several degrees and it should actually not be green and should be red (ie cold water status off). I’m tired of lugging chlorine. I’m going to run my SWG whenever I can. If I use up the hours so be it I’ll buy another. I however do not want to ruin the thing when it should t be running due to cold water.
IC40 temperature
- Thread starter Bvacchiano
- Start date
B,
I doubt you would hurt anything at all...
The EasyTouch/ScreenLogic gets Air and Water temp from the two probes that come with the EasyTouch. The air temp probe normally just hangs off the bottom the EasyTouch and the water temp probe is installed in the plumbing usually right after the pump...
There could easily be several degrees difference between what the EasyTouch shows and what the thermistor inside the IC40 reports...
Thanks,
Jim R.
I doubt you would hurt anything at all...
The EasyTouch/ScreenLogic gets Air and Water temp from the two probes that come with the EasyTouch. The air temp probe normally just hangs off the bottom the EasyTouch and the water temp probe is installed in the plumbing usually right after the pump...
There could easily be several degrees difference between what the EasyTouch shows and what the thermistor inside the IC40 reports...
Thanks,
Jim R.
- Nov 12, 2017
- 11,842
- Pool Size
- 12300
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
The IntelliFlo does have a temperature sensor, but it doesn't report that temperature to your EasyTouch (ET) or ScreenLogic (SL). The pump uses that sensor for it's own freeze protection (which is different from the freeze protection you might have setup in your EasyTouch).
The IntelliChlor (IC) also has a temperature sensor, but it doesn't report a number to ET or SL either. It uses it internally to determine if it should produce chlorine or not, and if it thinks the water is less than 52°, then it won't. And the IC's cold water LED will be red. The IC doesn't know, or care, what temperature the ET or SL thinks it is, it'll shut itself down all on its own (it doesn't even need an ET installed to do that). It will, however, report a cold water shutoff back to the ET, in the form of an alert you should be able to see in SL (but not the actual temp reading).
There are ways to measure what the IC's temp sensor is doing, with an ohm meter. I think Jim knows how to do that. But an alternate method is to measure the pool's temperature with an accurate thermometer and observe what the IC is doing. If the IC has power, and your pool is at or above ±52° and the IC's cold water light is off, then that's good. If the pool water is below ±52° and the SWG's cold water light is red, then that, too, is expected. And I wouldn't worry too much if the threshold is a bit higher or lower than 52°, even up to 5° off (just my gut on that). Now it if was off much more than that, then that's something to look into. The IC's temp sensor can be tested and/or replaced without too much trouble.
The trick to that troubleshooting is to make sure your thermometer is accurate. A typical floating pool thermometer can be off by 5° easy, so that would skew your test.
When you say the temperature is off "3-10 deg," are you referring to the air temperature or the water temperature? Either might be mis-adjusted from the actual temperature.
Either can be adjusted, using the ET's settings. Again, you would want to compare the air temp reading or water temp reading to a known accurate thermometer and adjust accordingly. You can't assume either ET reading is accurate from the factory.
And possibly making matters worse, the accuracy is location dependent. Jim mentioned a typical location for the ET's air temp sensor is close to the ET. That's where my installer put mine, but my air temp reading was really far off, and erratic. So I added a length of wire to the sensor and relocated it in the shade, just under my roof eve, so that the sun couldn't get at it.
Air temp sensors need to be in the shade, with good air circulation, to produce a reliable ambient air temp. You won't get good air temp if the sensor is in the sun. Mine was in the shade under the ET, but my ET is mounted on the west side of my house, so I think the sun hitting the ET and the surrounding stucco was affecting the air temp sensor. And I think that's why it was off, and erratic. The reading was OK in the morning, when everything was cool, but got wonky when the sun hit that wall. Now, under the eve, it's very stable. I adjusted my air temp offset (in the ET settings) to match the local weather report temp, and confirmed that with another air temp sensor I have elsewhere in my yard. All three temps match, so I'm pretty confident my air temp is accurate (or at least close enough).
I did the same with my pool temp sensor, matching that to my pool thermometer. It doesn't really matter to me that the two might be off a degree or two from actual temp, as long as they are the same. When either says 80°, my body knows what to expect. If it's actually 82°, or 78°, so be it.
And finally (finally!), if your SWG is producing chlorine (which you can double-check with an FC test or two), then it's fine. FC production drops the colder the water gets, so if your SWG was trying to produce in water too cold, you'd see a decrease in chlorine production. So: no cold water light + measurable chlorine production = your SWG is just fine.
The IntelliChlor (IC) also has a temperature sensor, but it doesn't report a number to ET or SL either. It uses it internally to determine if it should produce chlorine or not, and if it thinks the water is less than 52°, then it won't. And the IC's cold water LED will be red. The IC doesn't know, or care, what temperature the ET or SL thinks it is, it'll shut itself down all on its own (it doesn't even need an ET installed to do that). It will, however, report a cold water shutoff back to the ET, in the form of an alert you should be able to see in SL (but not the actual temp reading).
There are ways to measure what the IC's temp sensor is doing, with an ohm meter. I think Jim knows how to do that. But an alternate method is to measure the pool's temperature with an accurate thermometer and observe what the IC is doing. If the IC has power, and your pool is at or above ±52° and the IC's cold water light is off, then that's good. If the pool water is below ±52° and the SWG's cold water light is red, then that, too, is expected. And I wouldn't worry too much if the threshold is a bit higher or lower than 52°, even up to 5° off (just my gut on that). Now it if was off much more than that, then that's something to look into. The IC's temp sensor can be tested and/or replaced without too much trouble.
The trick to that troubleshooting is to make sure your thermometer is accurate. A typical floating pool thermometer can be off by 5° easy, so that would skew your test.
When you say the temperature is off "3-10 deg," are you referring to the air temperature or the water temperature? Either might be mis-adjusted from the actual temperature.
Either can be adjusted, using the ET's settings. Again, you would want to compare the air temp reading or water temp reading to a known accurate thermometer and adjust accordingly. You can't assume either ET reading is accurate from the factory.
And possibly making matters worse, the accuracy is location dependent. Jim mentioned a typical location for the ET's air temp sensor is close to the ET. That's where my installer put mine, but my air temp reading was really far off, and erratic. So I added a length of wire to the sensor and relocated it in the shade, just under my roof eve, so that the sun couldn't get at it.
Air temp sensors need to be in the shade, with good air circulation, to produce a reliable ambient air temp. You won't get good air temp if the sensor is in the sun. Mine was in the shade under the ET, but my ET is mounted on the west side of my house, so I think the sun hitting the ET and the surrounding stucco was affecting the air temp sensor. And I think that's why it was off, and erratic. The reading was OK in the morning, when everything was cool, but got wonky when the sun hit that wall. Now, under the eve, it's very stable. I adjusted my air temp offset (in the ET settings) to match the local weather report temp, and confirmed that with another air temp sensor I have elsewhere in my yard. All three temps match, so I'm pretty confident my air temp is accurate (or at least close enough).
I did the same with my pool temp sensor, matching that to my pool thermometer. It doesn't really matter to me that the two might be off a degree or two from actual temp, as long as they are the same. When either says 80°, my body knows what to expect. If it's actually 82°, or 78°, so be it.
And finally (finally!), if your SWG is producing chlorine (which you can double-check with an FC test or two), then it's fine. FC production drops the colder the water gets, so if your SWG was trying to produce in water too cold, you'd see a decrease in chlorine production. So: no cold water light + measurable chlorine production = your SWG is just fine.
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Turbo1Ton
Gold Supporter
- Dec 26, 2019
- 1,836
- Pool Size
- 14500
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- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
@mknauss said the other day, in a different thread, that the salt cells quit producing at low temps because of the lack of high FC demand. They will just simply produce way more FC at low temps than required. I always thought that there was the possibility of damage if it ran at low temps.
After he said that, it got me thinking of clipping my thermistor wire and letting it produce year round!
Although I haven't had to dose too much LC this winter. I bought a case of 4 gallons of LC at the end of last season and I'm not quite through it all yet. That isn't bad since my cell has been not producing since sometime in October.
--Jeff
After he said that, it got me thinking of clipping my thermistor wire and letting it produce year round!
Although I haven't had to dose too much LC this winter. I bought a case of 4 gallons of LC at the end of last season and I'm not quite through it all yet. That isn't bad since my cell has been not producing since sometime in October.
--Jeff
Jeff,
The main job of the flow switch thermistor is to adjust the reported salt level as the water gets colder... If you remove the thermistor from the circuit, I am not sure what that will do to the salt reading when the water is cold.. If it causes the salt reading to go up, the IC40 will still work.. But.. if it causes the reported salt level to go down, then the cell may not run due to low salt level..
I bet that @JamesW knows what will happen.
Thanks,
Jim R.
The main job of the flow switch thermistor is to adjust the reported salt level as the water gets colder... If you remove the thermistor from the circuit, I am not sure what that will do to the salt reading when the water is cold.. If it causes the salt reading to go up, the IC40 will still work.. But.. if it causes the reported salt level to go down, then the cell may not run due to low salt level..
I bet that @JamesW knows what will happen.
Thanks,
Jim R.
- Nov 12, 2017
- 11,842
- Pool Size
- 12300
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
Hmm, it was my understanding that reduced water temps lessen the "apparent" salinity that can be used by the SWG, and so lessens the amount of chlorine the SWG is capable of producing. I assumed SWGs were programmed to shut down or else they would be running with little or no benefit. Oh @JamesW... what say you? @JoyfulNoise might know, too.@mknauss said the other day, in a different thread, that the salt cells quit producing at low temps because of the lack of high FC demand. They will just simply produce way more FC at low temps than required. I always thought that there was the possibility of damage if it ran at low temps.
After he said that, it got me thinking of clipping my thermistor wire and letting it produce year round!
Although I haven't had to dose too much LC this winter. I bought a case of 4 gallons of LC at the end of last season and I'm not quite through it all yet. That isn't bad since my cell has been not producing since sometime in October.
I think damage is a possibility, if the above logic holds. Even though the salt is still there, the cold water is "obscuring" it from the plates, and so in effect it would be like running the plates in fresh water, which I think would damage them. That's gonna be my guess...
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Turbo1Ton
Gold Supporter
- Dec 26, 2019
- 1,836
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- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
@Jimrahbe , @Dirk
Thanks for the replies gents. I was mostly kidding. It did cross my mind but I would want to research and understand a lot more before I did that. I am curious what @JamesW thinks about this, however. And Dirk, you may be right about the apparent salinity. Makes sense if the cell can't 'see' the salt, it might damage it.
Thanks,
--Jeff
Thanks for the replies gents. I was mostly kidding. It did cross my mind but I would want to research and understand a lot more before I did that. I am curious what @JamesW thinks about this, however. And Dirk, you may be right about the apparent salinity. Makes sense if the cell can't 'see' the salt, it might damage it.
Thanks,
--Jeff
As long as the actual water temperature is above 52 degrees Fahrenheit and the actual salinity is above about 3,000, it is fine to use.
If you disconnect the temperature sensor by cutting the green and white wires, the salinity reading will go down if the temperature sensor was originally reading below 77 degrees and the salinity reading will go up if the temperature sensor was originally reading above 77 degrees.
It's unfortunate that the Intellichlor temperature reading doesn't show up in the automation.
In any case, as long as the actual water temperature is above 52 and the actual salinity is above about 3,000, and it's working correctly, then it is fine to use.
Even if the actual water temperature is below 52 degrees Fahrenheit, it will still work and it probably won't damage the cell.
What is the actual salinity and the actual water temperature?
What is the salinity as reported by EasyTouch?
If you disconnect the temperature sensor by cutting the green and white wires, the salinity reading will go down if the temperature sensor was originally reading below 77 degrees and the salinity reading will go up if the temperature sensor was originally reading above 77 degrees.
It's unfortunate that the Intellichlor temperature reading doesn't show up in the automation.
In any case, as long as the actual water temperature is above 52 and the actual salinity is above about 3,000, and it's working correctly, then it is fine to use.
Even if the actual water temperature is below 52 degrees Fahrenheit, it will still work and it probably won't damage the cell.
What is the actual salinity and the actual water temperature?
What is the salinity as reported by EasyTouch?
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As long as the "Cell" light is green, the combination of actual salinity and actual water temperature is probably good.
If the salinity reading from the cell is close to the actual salinity reading, then the water temperature reading from the cell is probably close to accurate.
If your water temperature is anywhere close to 52 degrees, your chlorine demand should be very low and easy to meet with liquid chlorine once a week.
If the salinity reading from the cell is close to the actual salinity reading, then the water temperature reading from the cell is probably close to accurate.
If your water temperature is anywhere close to 52 degrees, your chlorine demand should be very low and easy to meet with liquid chlorine once a week.
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- Nov 12, 2017
- 11,842
- Pool Size
- 12300
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
Just wanted to clarify one point James made, as this sometimes trips up new SWG users (or was that just me!). The green Cell light is not always on if your SWG output setting is less than 100%. That light indicates when the SWG is actually producing chlorine, it's not a general "everything is OK" indicator. So say your output setting is 50%: the green Cell light will be on for 50% of the time, then off for 50%, and cycle back and forth like that (not sure of the actual interval between ON cycles). Ahywho, if you see the green cell light, it means your system is OK. If you don't see it, it might just mean the SWG is in its OFF half of the cycle.
- Nov 12, 2017
- 11,842
- Pool Size
- 12300
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
This is how I manage my pool. Once I get the first "cold water" alert from the SWG (it shows up on ScreenLogic's interface), that signals the end of the season, so I disconnect the IntelliChlor and switch over to manually adding liquid chlorine once a week.
I don't mean to discourage you wanting to use your IC all you can. But the problem is: during that period of the year when the water temp is changing, and you're hovering around that 52° threshold, you could get some chlorine production some days, or part of some days, and none the next day. So your weekly total get's wonky and your FC can end up dropping. For me, it's not worth the hassle of the extra testing to figure out what the SWG is doing from day to day. I just unplug it and go manual. That actually makes it easier for me to control the FC level. Then in March or so, once the pool warms back up, I plug'er back in.
Cold Water: Shows the IntelliChlor SCG power status:
• No Light: The IntelliChlor SCG is operating in the normal temperature range (> 52° F (11° C)
• Red: The IntelliChlor SCG is in “Standby” mode (system off, no chlorine production) due to a cold water condition. The IntelliChlor SCG will resume to normal operation mode, including accurate salinity report, once water temperature goes above 52° F (11° C).
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Cell: Shows the status of the IntelliChlor SCG.
• Green (flashing): The IntelliChlor SCG needs to be inspected. The blades may have calcium buildup.
The IntelliChlor SCG is not producing chlorine.
• Green: IntelliChlor SCG is good and producing chlorine.
• No Light: IntelliChlor SCG is off and not producing chlorine. It may be in an off-period of the sanitizing cycle and will return on shortly.
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
The five (5) LED indicators display as a bar graph to show the cell output in either 2% or 20% increments, the percentage of the total output capacity of chlorine being produced. Percentages from 2% to 10% are represented by blinking LEDs. Percentages from 20% to 100% are represented by solid LEDs. In BOOST mode, these LEDs scroll from left to right
0% No LEDs lit - No chlorine produced - IntelliChlor SCG is off.
2% 1 LED blinking Produces chlorine for 64 seconds of every hour.
4% 2 LEDs blinking Produces chlorine for 127 seconds of every hour.
6% 3 LEDs blinking Produces chlorine for 16 seconds of each 5 minute period.
8% 4 LEDs blinking Produces chlorine for 21 seconds of each 5 minute period.
10% 5 LEDs blinking Produces chlorine for 27 seconds of each 5 minute period.
20% 1 LED solid Produces chlorine for 53 seconds of each 5 minute period.
40% 2 LEDs solid Produces chlorine for 106 seconds of each 5 minute period.
60% 3 LEDs solid Produces chlorine for 159 seconds of each 5 minute period.
80% 4 LEDs solid Produces chlorine for 212 seconds of each 5 minute period.
100% 5 LEDs solid Produces chlorine for 265 seconds of each 5 minute period
• No Light: The IntelliChlor SCG is operating in the normal temperature range (> 52° F (11° C)
• Red: The IntelliChlor SCG is in “Standby” mode (system off, no chlorine production) due to a cold water condition. The IntelliChlor SCG will resume to normal operation mode, including accurate salinity report, once water temperature goes above 52° F (11° C).
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Cell: Shows the status of the IntelliChlor SCG.
• Green (flashing): The IntelliChlor SCG needs to be inspected. The blades may have calcium buildup.
The IntelliChlor SCG is not producing chlorine.
• Green: IntelliChlor SCG is good and producing chlorine.
• No Light: IntelliChlor SCG is off and not producing chlorine. It may be in an off-period of the sanitizing cycle and will return on shortly.
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
The five (5) LED indicators display as a bar graph to show the cell output in either 2% or 20% increments, the percentage of the total output capacity of chlorine being produced. Percentages from 2% to 10% are represented by blinking LEDs. Percentages from 20% to 100% are represented by solid LEDs. In BOOST mode, these LEDs scroll from left to right
0% No LEDs lit - No chlorine produced - IntelliChlor SCG is off.
2% 1 LED blinking Produces chlorine for 64 seconds of every hour.
4% 2 LEDs blinking Produces chlorine for 127 seconds of every hour.
6% 3 LEDs blinking Produces chlorine for 16 seconds of each 5 minute period.
8% 4 LEDs blinking Produces chlorine for 21 seconds of each 5 minute period.
10% 5 LEDs blinking Produces chlorine for 27 seconds of each 5 minute period.
20% 1 LED solid Produces chlorine for 53 seconds of each 5 minute period.
40% 2 LEDs solid Produces chlorine for 106 seconds of each 5 minute period.
60% 3 LEDs solid Produces chlorine for 159 seconds of each 5 minute period.
80% 4 LEDs solid Produces chlorine for 212 seconds of each 5 minute period.
100% 5 LEDs solid Produces chlorine for 265 seconds of each 5 minute period
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If the amperage falls below a predetermined level, the Cell light will flash green, which indicates that the cell is not producing the correct amount of chlorine, which might be due to low salinity, low water temperature, a scaled cell or a failing cell.
In any case, you should not have to wait more than 5 minutes to see the Cell light come on solid or flashing.
Salt Level Status LEDs
The IntelliChlor SCG checks the pool salinity water daily and displays the levels as follows:
Green LED: Good salt. The pool water salt level is between 2800 ppm and 4500.
Green LED (Flashing): Salt level is above 4500 ppm. The salt level is high which increases the risk of corrosion and deterioration of pool equipment and surfaces in and around the pool.
Red LED: Low salt. The water salt level is below 2800 ppm. The IntelliChlor SCG will be producing chlorine at reduced efficiency. It is highly recommended to add salt.
Red LED: Very low salt. The water salt level has fallen below 2600 ppm. The IntelliChlor SCG will not produce chlorine until salt is added. The IntelliChlor SCG is OFF
In any case, you should not have to wait more than 5 minutes to see the Cell light come on solid or flashing.
Salt Level Status LEDs
The IntelliChlor SCG checks the pool salinity water daily and displays the levels as follows:
Green LED: Good salt. The pool water salt level is between 2800 ppm and 4500.
Green LED (Flashing): Salt level is above 4500 ppm. The salt level is high which increases the risk of corrosion and deterioration of pool equipment and surfaces in and around the pool.
Red LED: Low salt. The water salt level is below 2800 ppm. The IntelliChlor SCG will be producing chlorine at reduced efficiency. It is highly recommended to add salt.
Red LED: Very low salt. The water salt level has fallen below 2600 ppm. The IntelliChlor SCG will not produce chlorine until salt is added. The IntelliChlor SCG is OFF