Huge cost difference Hayward / Pentair

abcd1234

Member
Jul 21, 2021
12
MA
I received a quote from a pool builder for an IG fiberglass pool with Hayward equipment. I asked for a revised quote with Pentair equipment (the PB works with both), and it came out $8K more expensive (?!). The reason I prefer Pentair pump is because it can be installed 10 ft above the water line and is supposedly much quieter.

Does this make any sense? What should the difference be, if at all?

Hayward equipment:
* Hayward Tri-star VS 950
* Hayward AquaRite T Cell 940
* Hayward Swim clear Multi 425 Sq. Ft. Filter
* Hayward Heater - 400,000 BTU H400FDN
* 4 Hayward LED color lights

Pentair equipment:
* Pentair Intelliflo VSF pump,
* Pentair IC40 ( Intellichlor) Salt Chlorinator,
* Pentair Cartridge Filter 450,
* Pentair 400,000 BTU NG Heater
* 4 Pentair LED color lights
 

an1vrsy

Bronze Supporter
Jul 10, 2018
444
Las Vegas, NV
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
Here is my suggestion, I don’t know if Hayward can be bought online or not but look online for both brands. If, a big if, there is an $8,000 difference then you know he is not taking you for a loop.
 

Jimrahbe

Mod Squad
TFP Expert
LifeTime Supporter
Jul 7, 2014
23,471
Bedford, TX
a,

I doubt there is that much actual difference in his cost for the equipment..

I suspect it has more to do with what your pool builder can get get, and what he wants to install.. He may get better rebates etc. when using Hayward equipment.

As a general rule, most major brands of equipment pretty much have the same ballpark prices.

Thanks,

Jim R.
 

ajw22

Gold Supporter
TFP Guide
Jul 21, 2013
29,659
Northern NJ
Pool Size
35000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
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Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
Right now I think Pentair has more supply chain issues then Hayward and their equipment is harder to find. The Pentair equipment that is available is asking premium prices. The pricing you got is not normal and is part of a crazy market at the moment.
 

abcd1234

Member
Jul 21, 2021
12
MA
Turns out the PB quoted Intellicenter automation together with the Intelliflo VSF and IC40. He say that this pump needs the automation system, and if I don't want the Intellicenter I need a different Pentair pump.

Is it true that the Intelliflo VSF must be bundled with an automation system?
The PB is definitely more comfortable with Hayward and is getting a better deal for them through Leisure Pools. Realistically I am looking at Pentair pump for two reasons:

1) The pump will be 1 foot away from the house wall, next to my AC behind the dining room. Pentair are advertising their pump as being very quiet. I've heard that Hayward VS950 is much noisier. Is it an issue in practice though?
2) Pentair's manual says that it can be installed 10 ft above the water line. I expect to install the pump 8ft above the water line. Hayward pumps say nothing about this. Is the Hayward pump not supporting such level differences or is it just not mentioned in their documentation?

Thank you for any advice!
 

ajw22

Gold Supporter
TFP Guide
Jul 21, 2013
29,659
Northern NJ
Pool Size
35000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
Turns out the PB quoted Intellicenter automation together with the Intelliflo VSF and IC40. He say that this pump needs the automation system, and if I don't want the Intellicenter I need a different Pentair pump.

Is it true that the Intelliflo VSF must be bundled with an automation system?

No that is not true. The IntelliFlo VS pumps run fine using their control panel, just like all VS pumps that have a control panel.

The PB is definitely more comfortable with Hayward and is getting a better deal for them through Leisure Pools. Realistically I am looking at Pentair pump for two reasons:

1) The pump will be 1 foot away from the house wall, next to my AC behind the dining room. Pentair are advertising their pump as being very quiet. I've heard that Hayward VS950 is much noisier. Is it an issue in practice though?

No, both Pentair and Hayward VS pumps should be quiet when run at low RPMS.

2) Pentair's manual says that it can be installed 10 ft above the water line. I expect to install the pump 8ft above the water line. Hayward pumps say nothing about this. Is the Hayward pump not supporting such level differences or is it just not mentioned in their documentation?

The IntelliFlo Vs pump has one of the most powerful motors at 3 HP versus the Tristar 950 at 2.7 HP. That may give the Intelliflo the edge on priming. Let's see what @mas985 says about your priming needs.
 

ajw22

Gold Supporter
TFP Guide
Jul 21, 2013
29,659
Northern NJ
Pool Size
35000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
Will both pumps usually run at low RPMs if the pool is 60-70ft away from it, and also the pump is 8ft higher, + 2 skimmers? I read that it is related to THD, but I'm not sure what a typical THD for this kind of installation.

The RPMs your pump will need to run will depend on the flow rate your equipment requires. Nothing you list in your first post requires a high flow rate.

Use 2.5" suction pipes and 2" returns and your distance will not matter.

Once the pump primes the fact that the pump is uphill from the water is compensated by the return water flowing downhill.

None of those factors will prevent you running the pump at low RPMs. Your automation can ramp up the RPMs when running the heater.
 

mas985

TFP Expert
LifeTime Supporter
May 3, 2007
14,791
Pleasanton, CA
Pool Size
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Surface
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Unfortunately, residential pool pump manufactures do not publish NPSHr curves with the head curves so it is difficult know what the lift of each pump will be. However, the larger the pump, the more lift it would have but it might not be all that significant of a difference for these two pumps since their head curves are not all that different.

No matter which pump you choose, neither is going to be easy to prime at 8' lift without making some plumbing modifications. Make sure that the PB puts in valves on the suction side of the pump for priming. By filling the pump basket with the valve closed and then opening the valve after the pump is running, almost any pump will be able to prime at 8'. Also, keep in mind that because of the elevation rise, there will always be lower pressure in the pump basket making it more prone to leaking in air (i.e. losing prime) with the pump on or off.

I also noted that you have a heater which is probably going to cause you issues at that elevation so you might want to replace the heater pressure switch with a flow switch.

As for noise, what makes any VS pump quiet is the RPM it is run at. Both pumps are going to be extremely noisy at full speed and extremely quite at very low speeds. I would be surprised if there were that much of a different at a particular RPM.
 

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abcd1234

Member
Jul 21, 2021
12
MA
Unfortunately, residential pool pump manufactures do not publish NPSHr curves with the head curves so it is difficult know what the lift of each pump will be. However, the larger the pump, the more lift it would have but it might not be all that significant of a difference for these two pumps since their head curves are not all that different.

No matter which pump you choose, neither is going to be easy to prime at 8' lift without making some plumbing modifications. Make sure that the PB puts in valves on the suction side of the pump for priming. By filling the pump basket with the valve closed and then opening the valve after the pump is running, almost any pump will be able to prime at 8'. Also, keep in mind that because of the elevation rise, there will always be lower pressure in the pump basket making it more prone to leaking in air (i.e. losing prime) with the pump on or off.

I also noted that you have a heater which is probably going to cause you issues at that elevation so you might want to replace the heater pressure switch with a flow switch.

As for noise, what makes any VS pump quiet is the RPM it is run at. Both pumps are going to be extremely noisy at full speed and extremely quite at very low speeds. I would be surprised if there were that much of a different at a particular RPM.

Thanks! at what maximum elevation difference would priming not be a concern (as in - there's no need for any of these modifications, even with a heater)? 4 ft? 6 ft?
I can look for alternative locations.
 
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