My pool is less than two months old and has a SWG so we are constantly battling high ph and we put in 24 oz of MA at a time and ph still does not budge. Pool is only 5100 gallons. How much MA can we add at once? Is it more effective to add a couple cups then wait a couple hours and add more or is it just as effective to add 4 cups at one time?
How much muriatic acid can be added at one time?
- Thread starter Rachelmarie
- Start date
Muriatic acid can lower your pH really quick in big doses for a 5100 gallon pool id recommend adding around have a cup and letting it circulate for about 30 minutes or so and then re check your chemicals levels
- May 23, 2015
- 24,410
- Pool Size
- 16000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
You should never add more acid than is needed to reach the pH level you are looking for. PoolMath, like a lot of calculators, is only accurate in pH when the adjustments are small (not more than 0.2-0.4 units at a time). If you change the pH by larger amounts, you could overshoot. Adding acid also lowers TA and so you need to keep an eye on that as well.
But the question is WHY is your pH rising so fast? It’s normal in new pools. Can you please add a signature with all of your pool’s equipment specs, pool size and surface type so we can better help you?
How are you testing your pool water and what are your latest test results? Also, please test your fill water for pH, TA and CH.
But the question is WHY is your pH rising so fast? It’s normal in new pools. Can you please add a signature with all of your pool’s equipment specs, pool size and surface type so we can better help you?
How are you testing your pool water and what are your latest test results? Also, please test your fill water for pH, TA and CH.
- Oct 25, 2015
- 5,149
- Pool Size
- 25000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-60 Plus
Rachel,
So long as you follow good safety practices and add the MA at a spot for good mixing like where the return jets are located I don't think there is a limit. But that's a LOT of acid. Especially for a new pool I'd add much smaller amounts maybe 4-6 oz per. New plaster pools can also have peculiar pH behavior. There are a lot of posts on this. Can you please add additional information about your pool so the experts can weigh in with better responses quicker?
What is the rest of your chemistry? I bet your TA is out of whack. It would be very helpful if you get the full analysis of chemistry and post it here... based or reliable tests not pool store.
I'm sure you'll get advice to get this under control soon once experts here have a little more info to go on.
Chris
So long as you follow good safety practices and add the MA at a spot for good mixing like where the return jets are located I don't think there is a limit. But that's a LOT of acid. Especially for a new pool I'd add much smaller amounts maybe 4-6 oz per. New plaster pools can also have peculiar pH behavior. There are a lot of posts on this. Can you please add additional information about your pool so the experts can weigh in with better responses quicker?
What is the rest of your chemistry? I bet your TA is out of whack. It would be very helpful if you get the full analysis of chemistry and post it here... based or reliable tests not pool store.
I'm sure you'll get advice to get this under control soon once experts here have a little more info to go on.
Chris
Ok I updated my signature. Let me know if there is anything else I should add...
Additional info:
Chlorine-1
CYA-60
TA-120
Pho-100
current pool temp is 62 F
I know the amount of MA we are adding is crazy but I am telling you it is doing nothing so the only thing that makes sense to me is to increase the amount we add. We have been putting 16-24 oz in daily and I have never gotten a test result for ph below 8. I even tried a brand new test to make sure something was not wrong with the old one and have had the pool store confirm what I was seeing. This is a new pool but in our last house we also built a pebble tec pool and owned it for 10 years so taking care of a pool is not new to us. This seems very extreme to me. I called our PB and they said that it was normal this early in the game with the plaster curing but I do not understand why PH won't go down. We even added 32 oz one time and made no difference.
Additional info:
Chlorine-1
CYA-60
TA-120
Pho-100
current pool temp is 62 F
I know the amount of MA we are adding is crazy but I am telling you it is doing nothing so the only thing that makes sense to me is to increase the amount we add. We have been putting 16-24 oz in daily and I have never gotten a test result for ph below 8. I even tried a brand new test to make sure something was not wrong with the old one and have had the pool store confirm what I was seeing. This is a new pool but in our last house we also built a pebble tec pool and owned it for 10 years so taking care of a pool is not new to us. This seems very extreme to me. I called our PB and they said that it was normal this early in the game with the plaster curing but I do not understand why PH won't go down. We even added 32 oz one time and made no difference.
I know I need to get a better test kit. My husband normally has taken care of the pool and he adds all the chemicals, ect. He has been busy with work so I am helping by testing it and letting him know what we need. I do think its time to invest in a better test kit so I will talk to him about it tonight and hopefully purchase one that can give us more details than just ph and chlorine.
- May 3, 2014
- 58,384
- Pool Size
- 6000
- Surface
- Fiberglass
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
Ph has been between 8-8.2 the past few times I have tested it. I used phenol red indicator solution and have also had this confirmed at pool store. I know no one here is a fan of the pool store but for now that is what I am doing because it worked for us for 10 years. I will try to convince my husband that its worth the money to invest in a better at home test kit.
- May 3, 2014
- 58,384
- Pool Size
- 6000
- Surface
- Fiberglass
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
With your elevated TA the pH will rise quickly, especially with the new plaster.
Any water features (fountains, sheers, spillovers) running all the time?
I would suggest adding MA to lower from 8.2 to 7.6. Circulate the pool for 2-3 hours, test, repeat. Do that as often as possible until the pH begins to settle. Test TA each day while doing this. Be sure to enter your current TA into PoolMath so you determine the correct amount of MA to use each time.
Any water features (fountains, sheers, spillovers) running all the time?
I would suggest adding MA to lower from 8.2 to 7.6. Circulate the pool for 2-3 hours, test, repeat. Do that as often as possible until the pH begins to settle. Test TA each day while doing this. Be sure to enter your current TA into PoolMath so you determine the correct amount of MA to use each time.
- May 23, 2015
- 24,410
- Pool Size
- 16000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
Well, you know where TFP stands on pool store testing. And it's not a "they're evil and we're good" kind of thing - it's because you need fast, reliable test results when you are standing at the pool side and not in line at a store. The only way to get fast and reliable results is with your own kit. And, the nice part is, when you test yourself you don't have some pool store employee trying to sell you all sorts of things you don't need...some people are good at saying "no thank you" but many are not and will buy all the useless stuff just to shut the guy up. Or, worse yet, the pool store employee will be some teenage kid who cares more about the LIKES he's getting on Instagram post rather than actually becoming knowledgable is something...in which case, he then sells you lots of chemicals that the computer print out tells him to sell you.
Bottom line is this - your TA is way too high. At a 120ppm, you'll never get the pH below 8 because the carbonate alkalinity and the natural outgassing of CO2 from your pool water will force the pH to rise (I could go into the complex chemistry of it, but I'll spare you the details). The funny part is, the pool store will tell you your TA is perfect and to just add more acid. The your TA will start to come down from acid addition but the pH won't budge much. At that point the pool store guy will tell you that your TA is dangerously low and your pool is going to turn into a black hole and suck you and your entire home into the ground unless you add this entire bucket of specially formulated Alkalinity Increaser.....(shhhh
....it's baking soda). When you add that, you'll drive your pH right back up through the roof again and the pool store will try selling you dry acid because who wants to smell all those acid fumes....the cycle repeats until your are exhausted or your bank account is.
As Marty says, lower your pH to 7.6 and see where your TA goes. It should start to come down. Once your TA gets down to 80ppm, you should see the pH rise slow up a bit.
Can you test pH and TA on your own??
Bottom line is this - your TA is way too high. At a 120ppm, you'll never get the pH below 8 because the carbonate alkalinity and the natural outgassing of CO2 from your pool water will force the pH to rise (I could go into the complex chemistry of it, but I'll spare you the details). The funny part is, the pool store will tell you your TA is perfect and to just add more acid. The your TA will start to come down from acid addition but the pH won't budge much. At that point the pool store guy will tell you that your TA is dangerously low and your pool is going to turn into a black hole and suck you and your entire home into the ground unless you add this entire bucket of specially formulated Alkalinity Increaser.....(shhhh
....it's baking soda). When you add that, you'll drive your pH right back up through the roof again and the pool store will try selling you dry acid because who wants to smell all those acid fumes....the cycle repeats until your are exhausted or your bank account is.As Marty says, lower your pH to 7.6 and see where your TA goes. It should start to come down. Once your TA gets down to 80ppm, you should see the pH rise slow up a bit.
Can you test pH and TA on your own??
Thank you both so much for the helpful input!
I have been testing ph on my own but the TA number came from the pool store. Their printout listed 120 as ok. At least now its making sense as to why my ph is not easily coming down. I did not know TA would cause it to be more difficult to move. So is TA lowered with MA as well? I would have thought with the amount of acid we have been adding the TA would have gone down some by now.
I have been testing ph on my own but the TA number came from the pool store. Their printout listed 120 as ok. At least now its making sense as to why my ph is not easily coming down. I did not know TA would cause it to be more difficult to move. So is TA lowered with MA as well? I would have thought with the amount of acid we have been adding the TA would have gone down some by now.
Is it best to mix the MA with water before putting it in the pool or can we just dump the MA straight into the deep end? In the past we always just put it straight in but the guy at the pool store said we should mix it with water first then dump it in.
- May 3, 2014
- 58,384
- Pool Size
- 6000
- Surface
- Fiberglass
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
MA will lower TA over time.
Never handle acid twice. Pour directly into the water. Pour it at the return with the pump running. Pour it slowly. Use your brush afterwards to mix the water in that area if you feel it did not mix well.
When I use MA, I take the bottle and place it near or slightly in the water. I then pour it into my measuring cup at the water level. I then slowly pour from the cup into the return stream of water.
Be sure to use eye protection. Wash off any MA that splashes on you or the deck immediately, with water.
Never handle acid twice. Pour directly into the water. Pour it at the return with the pump running. Pour it slowly. Use your brush afterwards to mix the water in that area if you feel it did not mix well.
When I use MA, I take the bottle and place it near or slightly in the water. I then pour it into my measuring cup at the water level. I then slowly pour from the cup into the return stream of water.
Be sure to use eye protection. Wash off any MA that splashes on you or the deck immediately, with water.
- May 3, 2014
- 58,384
- Pool Size
- 6000
- Surface
- Fiberglass
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
It is very important to have an accurate reading for TA as it is a factor in how much acid you need to add based on how much you want to lower pH. Use PoolMath.
Have you been running your spa jets or spill overs constantly? That will greatly increase your pH and you should limit their use while you are trying to lower pH.
You know you need a better test kit. Did anyone at the pool store mention to you how low your FC was? And did they test for combined chloramines (CCs...the problem children, so to speak)? I don't see those results, but I do see they list phosphates. We don't give a fib about phosphates as we assume there will be enough chlorine in the water that their won't be any algae eating phosphates. These are a few reasons why you *need* your own decent test kit.
Are you using full strength MA? Are you brushing the area where you're pouring the MA in the pool to make sure its mixed up good after being poured in? If ever you feel you need to dilute MA in a bucket remember that you need to always pour MA into water, *never water in to MA*! This is to avoid splashback of MA.
Maddie
You know you need a better test kit. Did anyone at the pool store mention to you how low your FC was? And did they test for combined chloramines (CCs...the problem children, so to speak)? I don't see those results, but I do see they list phosphates. We don't give a fib about phosphates as we assume there will be enough chlorine in the water that their won't be any algae eating phosphates. These are a few reasons why you *need* your own decent test kit.
Are you using full strength MA? Are you brushing the area where you're pouring the MA in the pool to make sure its mixed up good after being poured in? If ever you feel you need to dilute MA in a bucket remember that you need to always pour MA into water, *never water in to MA*! This is to avoid splashback of MA.
Maddie
Have you been running your spa jets or spill overs constantly? That will greatly increase your pH and you should limit their use while you are trying to lower pH.
You know you need a better test kit. Did anyone at the pool store mention to you how low your FC was? And did they test for combined chloramines (CCs...the problem children, so to speak)? I don't see those results, but I do see they list phosphates. We don't give a fib about phosphates as we assume there will be enough chlorine in the water that their won't be any algae eating phosphates. These are a few reasons why you *need* your own decent test kit.
Are you using full strength MA? Are you brushing the area where you're pouring the MA in the pool to make sure its mixed up good after being poured in? If ever you feel you need to dilute MA in a bucket remember that you need to always pour MA into water, *never water in to MA*! This is to avoid splashback of MA.
Maddie
I shut off the deck jets and sun shelf bubbler. I have a pool/spa combo so the spa is always trickling over like and infinity edge. I do not know how to stop it from doing that aside from putting it in spa mode which I do not want to do because then the pool returns would not run.
They did tell me last time to increase the SWG production by 10% we are being careful because we had a major issue a couple weeks where our chlorine was at 20 and we shut off the SWG and it would not budge so we had to add something to lower it. We get ZERO sunlight this time of year on our pool and its been cold so I do not want our chlorine to get too high again.
I did not see a result for CCs on the paper they gave me.
The MA I am using is 32% or something around there. Is that full strength?
32% is a fairly standard strength for MA - You generally don't see anything stronger than 32% at the local store however you will see some brands/variants with weaker strength.
So once again we added 24 oz of MA mixed it in with the pool brush and checked it 2 hours later and still the same ph reading which is around 8.2. I really do not understand how 24 oz MA in a 5000 gallon pool does nothing at all. Makes no sense to me. On Saturday when we are home all day we plan to add 16 oz and test every 2 hours then keep adding every 2 hours if the test does not show the desired ph. If that doesn't work I don't know what to do.
- May 3, 2014
- 58,384
- Pool Size
- 6000
- Surface
- Fiberglass
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40