Hot tub

Casey

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Apr 16, 2007
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Pool Size
17000
Surface
Fiberglass
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Jandy Aquapure 1400
I've read the care for hot tubs using chlorine. This is the route I'm looking at going with liquid chlorine. I did read to use Dichlor at first to hit the recommended CYA and then I can dose with liquid daily and every hour or so when in use for heavy bather loads.

My thing is... this tub is coming with ozone and they said I can't take it out because its built in and all of their models have it (I bought it through my pool builder). Will it be fine if the ozone is running through it with chlorine? I'm not interested in low to virtually no FC levels with this thing. I like clean n sanitized water. Will I run into any issues just using chlorine while it runs too? I can't even remember the brand. All I thought about was relaxing in it after being on my feet all day on concrete.
 
From pool school :

Ozone Systems in Spas​

The biggest plus with a functioning ozonator (not all work properly or put out enough ozone to work well) is that it will oxidize many contaminants in the water, but it's not fast as it takes time to get water circulated through the ozonator. Though spas circulate water faster than pools, it still takes 4.6 turnovers of the water to get 99% of the water through the ozonator and that's assuming no dead spots. You still need a residual sanitizer if you're going to prevent bacterial growth in the bulk pool water.[3]

The biggest minus with an ozonator is that it mostly injects air into the water and that aerates the water. If the ozonator is always on (and many are), this leads to a rise in pH if you use a hypochlorite source of chlorine. So many spa users use Dichlor which is acidic (when accounting for chlorine usage) and this helps maintain the pH, but has the CYA rise.

An ozonator probably makes more sense in a bromine spa than a chlorine spa as it can reactivate the bromide to bromine (though can create bromates -- so don't drink the water) and most bromine systems are net acidic so the pH will be more stable with the ozonator. As was pointed out, it is technically unnecessary if one maintains a residual sanitizer (chlorine, bromine, PHMB/biguanide/Baqua).

Just keep in mind that the sanitizer usage in a spa is MUCH higher than in a pool due to the lower water volume (higher bather load) and higher temperature that causes one to produce more sweat and causes chlorine to outgas more (especially with an ozonator).

If you use your hot tub a lot and keep it covered when not in use then an Ozonator can help, however if you only soak in it on the weekends, etc. then an Ozonator will actually consume more chlorine than the tub would use to oxidize bather waste if you did not have one. Also unlike Ozonators for pools, ones built for hot tubs are relatively cheap. [4]
 
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I've read the care for hot tubs using chlorine. This is the route I'm looking at going with liquid chlorine. I did read to use Dichlor at first to hit the recommended CYA and then I can dose with liquid daily and every hour or so when in use for heavy bather loads.

My thing is... this tub is coming with ozone and they said I can't take it out because its built in and all of their models have it (I bought it through my pool builder). Will it be fine if the ozone is running through it with chlorine? I'm not interested in low to virtually no FC levels with this thing. I like clean n sanitized water. Will I run into any issues just using chlorine while it runs too? I can't even remember the brand. All I thought about was relaxing in it after being on my feet all day on concrete.
What hot tub is it? Maybe the ozonator can be turned off ?
 
@RDspaguy has a different perspective on spa care that is worth listening to from his experience.
 
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they said I can't take it out
They lied. Or perhaps, if it's a pool builder, they simply don't know how.
I'm not interested in low to virtually no FC levels with this thing. I like clean n sanitized water.
You say that as though the two are mutually exclusive. You can have clean and sanitary water without having a constant chemical residual. With ozone, you still use chlorine, you just don't have to shock as the ozone does it for you. Since burning off high cc requires a high fc, maybe too high to use it until fc drops, and mps has it's own list of problems, ozone is the best way to do this in a private spa. In a public spa, regulations require constant chemical residual, so ozone can be more of a problem than a help.

Will I run into any issues just using chlorine while it runs too?
Ozone will burn off fc as well as cc. This allows you to overdo your chlorine after use and still be able to use the spa the next day, as the ozone will burn off the excess. Once fc is low, contaminants entering the water will not be destroyed as quickly. Sanitation is the result of residual and time, and low fc can still destroy pathogens in the water, it just takes longer than the regulations say it can. With the cover in good condition and closed, no new contaminants are entering the water so no residual is needed to destroy them in a private covered spa, and no regulation exists saying that you have to have one. You are the greatest source of contaminants in your spa. If you want a residual during use, add a little chlorine before you get in.

The biggest minus with an ozonator is that it mostly injects air into the water and that aerates the water. If the ozonator is always on (and many are), this leads to a rise in pH if you use a hypochlorite source of chlorine.
Yes, it injects a steady stream of tiny bubbles into the water, which will raise ph. The amount of air injected on a 24/7 injection system is still significantly less than the air injected from running the jets for 30 minutes. This statement above is pure conjecture, in my opinion. If someone actually tested it, I would love to read the post.
As for 24/7 systems, they are the only ones I recommend for ozone. When used on a timed system it is usually not enough ozone to make a noticeable difference, and is there as a selling point. The original ozone systems were a 24/7 injection, and a huge selling point for them. Others started slapping in ozone generators without the necessary equipment and plumbing to use it effectively, just so they could say they had ozone. These were often damaging to covers and equipment.

Though spas circulate water faster than pools, it still takes 4.6 turnovers of the water to get 99% of the water through the ozonator
A 24/7 system will turn over the entire volume of the average spa in under 45 minutes. 4.6 turnovers for 99% ozone exposure will happen around 6 times a day on the average spa. It is not 100% guaranteed, and you do still need chlorine, but very little is going to be able to grow under those conditions in a covered and pre-sanitized (chlorine after use) spa.

An ozonator probably makes more sense in a bromine spa than a chlorine spa
I don't personally use or normally recommend bromine in a spa, or anywhere else for that matter. In my experience, ozone, even on a 24/7 system, has little noticeable affect on bromine generation. I assume that, while it does oxidize bromide into bromine, it also oxidizes bromine, just as it does chlorine. Otherwise, you would see ever increasing bromine levels until you ran out of bromide to convert. I looked, but could find no studies on bromine/ozone outside of manufacturer claims.

bromine systems are net acidic
Only if you use tablets, which contain trichlor. No different than using chlorine tablets. If you oxidize your bromide with liquid chlorine it is not nearly so hard on the ph.

it is technically unnecessary if one maintains a residual sanitizer
True. But unnecessary does not mean useless.

the sanitizer usage in a spa is MUCH higher than in a pool due to the lower water volume (higher bather load)
Which results in high cc, which is where that ozone earns it's keep.
If you use your hot tub a lot and keep it covered when not in use then an Ozonator can help, however if you only soak in it on the weekends, etc. then an Ozonator will actually consume more chlorine than the tub would use to oxidize bather waste if you did not have one.
If you only soak on weekends, you only chlorinate on weekends. You will use less chlorine under those circumstances. Not enough to pay for the ozone replacement, or likely even the electricity it uses, but if you're counting pennies, it will use less. It's advantage is not in using less chlorine, it's in being able to use more and still use it the next day. It's about eliminating disadvantages of straight chlorine use in spas, not saving you $5 a month in chlorine.

If you still want to get rid of the ozone, post some pics of the equipment area, circuit board, and wiring diagram and I'll tell you how to do it.
For that matter, post them anyway and I'll tell you if it's worth having ozone in the first place.
 
@RDspaguy thank you Mister! I do not have it yet but it is a Nordic Spa that looks like this in light blue. I will defer to your expertise as you can teach this old lady what would be best with how I use this spa. I will be the only one in it for the most part but I will have others in it with me from time to time throughout the summer.

I do have a question though regarding my granddaughter. She's going to want to get in it with me. Is there a danger to young children using this (she is going to be 9)? We went somewhere once when my children were younger n they had a warning sign about young children not using the hot tub because of the heat or something. Do you know anything about this? I want to keep her safe and be able to enjoy this gift her Pappy gave her n I.
 

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She's going to want to get in it with me. Is there a danger to young children using this
You have to feel it out the first few times. The heat can overwhelm people, grownups too. But especially the young, elderly and those with medical conditions. Anyone subject to problems gets dizzy/woozy and may pass out causing a drowning risk. Anyone feeling lightheaded comes out immediately, yourself included.

My Mrs and kids, like many people, simply thought it was too hot and I would lower the temp 5 degrees or so for them. That's also the remedy for anyone prone to feel weird at the hot temps.
 
The danger is hyperthermia, and is real for adults, too. That's why most spas have a 104 degree max. Smaller person means higher surface area to mass ratio, so they lose or gain heat faster. If your child had a 104 degree fever you would rush them to the hospital for fear of brain damage. After 5 minutes in a 104* spa, they do. Some kids also get heat seizures.
The solution is 101* water. My kids spend hours on end in mine, at 101. Mild fever, no real risk.
 
The danger is hyperthermia, and is real for adults, too. That's why most spas have a 104 degree max. Smaller person means higher surface area to mass ratio, so they lose or gain heat faster. If your child had a 104 degree fever you would rush them to the hospital for fear of brain damage. After 5 minutes in a 104* spa, they do. Some kids also get heat seizures.
The solution is 101* water. My kids spend hours on end in mine, at 101. Mild fever, no real risk.
Thanks. I figured a lower temp would be ok. I just want to make sure that she'll be ok in enjoying this with me with no dangers. She is my baby and I don't want to put her in danger and if need be, I'll keep the temp on the lower end. I just want her to enjoy this safely with me. She is always going to be supervised with me whether it's in the pool or the spa. She has no idea I'm getting it so it's another surprise.
 
Keep in mind too, although she is your baby, she is closer now to being grown than she is to being a little kid. Concern is great, don't get me wrong, but you have less to worry about than somebody with 3 and 6 year olds.

For example, she knows how she is supposed to feel and how she isn't. She will tell you immediately if something isn't right once you lay down the ground rules..... which apply to you as well. If something is off with your body on soak #52, you might have problems even when it was never a problem before.

Anyone who feels off, gets out. No exceptions.
 
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@Casey
Aside from lowering the temp- i also enforce a 10-15 minute time limit where they have to get out & regulate to normal temps. My son gets starts getting sleepy after 10 minutes or so - so you just have to keep watch on your individual kid’s tolerance. My daughter is older & doesn’t have that issue. Generally since we have a 110v tub it loses heat if its chilly out & the cover is off w/ the jets going anyway.
so I don’t usually have to adjust the temp down - I just let them come in near the end of/after my soak when its fallen to 101.
The hot tub really is great for the shoulder seasons with kids because it allows them to swim a little while in the pool then warm up without feeling like the fun is over cuz they had to get out of the pool!
 
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I just took ownership of my brand new Nordic Hot Tub yesterday. Its beautiful. I have read the owners manual and it said I will void my warranty if I use MA to drop pH or Liquid Chlorine to increase sanitizer levels. Do all hot tub manufacturers say this in their manuals? Should I only be using Dichlor? I'm going to be filling the tub today and going to the pool store for if I need to. I have CYA, MA, Chlorine, Baking Soda and Borax here already. I'll order some Ahhhsome here in a minute. Just looking for anything I should need to know from seasoned tubbers before I start.
 

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I just took ownership of my brand new Nordic Hot Tub yesterday. Its beautiful. I have read the owners manual and it said I will void my warranty if I use MA to drop pH or Liquid Chlorine to increase sanitizer levels. Do all hot tub manufacturers say this in their manuals? Should I only be using Dichlor? I'm going to be filling the tub today and going to the pool store for if I need to. I have CYA, MA, Chlorine, Baking Soda and Borax here already. I'll order some Ahhhsome here in a minute. Just looking for anything I should need to know from seasoned tubbers before I start.
Let’s get @RDspaguy thoughts.
 
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If u only use dichlor you will max out cya in short order.
Don’t forget to add your new beauty to your signature 😊
That's what I was thinking. I really dont understand why they don't want someone using it. It's not like you'd be dumping it in willy nilly. Itd have to be carefully measured since it's such a small body of water.
 

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