SPP said:jblizzle said:
Roger that...........thanks Jason, me been a loyal user of TF-100 ( sorry not TP-100 ).
BTW, are you Jason Lion ? Or another Jason ?
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Different Jason ... we have a lot of Jason's and Dave's around here
High TDS, pH, phosphates, CH, no FC and algae present...
- Thread starter simon
- Start date
Different Jason ... we have a lot of Jason's and Dave's around here
SPP said:jblizzle said:
Roger that...........thanks Jason, me been a loyal user of TF-100 ( sorry not TP-100 ).
BTW, are you Jason Lion ? Or another Jason ?
.
Different Jason. Jason Lion is the Forum Admin, while Jbizzle is a moderator. Both will tell ya if your misbehavining though
simon said:
One of the things the pool store is actually very good at: Making you believe that pool care is incredibly difficult and only a professional can possibly do.
Okay, so here we are exactly one week later. I'll fill everyone in on how bad these pool service guys are:
- When starting each day, the pump now runs dry for almost 5 minutes before sucking water. Can't be good for the impeller.
- I am assuming this is because somehow air is getting into the pipes.
- Filter has a ton of air in it after starting, which I also assume is because of the leak. I let it out until water comes out, again assuming that if air is in it, the cartridge won't be working well (Am I correct?)
- Pool cleaner has all but stopped working. I bought a clip for the tail and put it on myself, as the dufus pool guy I told about it never came back with one. It sits there lethargically in the pool, barely moving, so something's up.
- Algae started appearing in clumps on the bottom yesterday, probably in part due to the lack of a working pool cleaner.
I wrote a long email to the owner explaining the situation that these guys aren't any good and I would hate her to incur avoidable expenses. I offering to help find another service. No reply.
I called the service owner (Not his dufus helper) and explained the problems. He's coming tomorrow.
I took a water sample to the same shop just now. Readings are:
FC=4 (Up 1), TC=4 (Up 1), pH=7.4 (Down 0.1), TA=80 (Down 10), CH=350 (Up 50), CYA=45 (Down 5), TDS=2100 (Down 100), phosphates=300 (Same).
According to pool school for my CYA level, the FC needs to be increased to 5.5. Also I notice the CH coming up fast. But is the phosphate the immediate problem to tackle? I am going to meet the guy tomorrow. What would you advise, short of firing him (I've already tried that with my landlord).
- When starting each day, the pump now runs dry for almost 5 minutes before sucking water. Can't be good for the impeller.
- I am assuming this is because somehow air is getting into the pipes.
- Filter has a ton of air in it after starting, which I also assume is because of the leak. I let it out until water comes out, again assuming that if air is in it, the cartridge won't be working well (Am I correct?)
- Pool cleaner has all but stopped working. I bought a clip for the tail and put it on myself, as the dufus pool guy I told about it never came back with one. It sits there lethargically in the pool, barely moving, so something's up.
- Algae started appearing in clumps on the bottom yesterday, probably in part due to the lack of a working pool cleaner.
I wrote a long email to the owner explaining the situation that these guys aren't any good and I would hate her to incur avoidable expenses. I offering to help find another service. No reply.
I called the service owner (Not his dufus helper) and explained the problems. He's coming tomorrow.
I took a water sample to the same shop just now. Readings are:
FC=4 (Up 1), TC=4 (Up 1), pH=7.4 (Down 0.1), TA=80 (Down 10), CH=350 (Up 50), CYA=45 (Down 5), TDS=2100 (Down 100), phosphates=300 (Same).
According to pool school for my CYA level, the FC needs to be increased to 5.5. Also I notice the CH coming up fast. But is the phosphate the immediate problem to tackle? I am going to meet the guy tomorrow. What would you advise, short of firing him (I've already tried that with my landlord).
Unfortuneately it sounds like you are just going to have to "help" them maintain the chemical levels.
For a CYA of 50ppm, the minimum FC is 4ppm, but since you see algae, you need to go through the Shocking Your Pool process ... how you do that with someone else maintaining the pool is beyond me.
Can you call the home owner? ... they really should be aware of the mess that is happening and that you could likely save them money maintaining it yourself.
See the link in my signature for the test kits we recommend ... that is a good idea. Even if you have to test the water and TELL the service guy what to put in the water.
For a CYA of 50ppm, the minimum FC is 4ppm, but since you see algae, you need to go through the Shocking Your Pool process ... how you do that with someone else maintaining the pool is beyond me.
Can you call the home owner? ... they really should be aware of the mess that is happening and that you could likely save them money maintaining it yourself.
See the link in my signature for the test kits we recommend ... that is a good idea. Even if you have to test the water and TELL the service guy what to put in the water.
Yes, I am basically helping them now, am I not? Taking my own water samples, going to the pool shop, researching, reading up on this forums, posting articles etc.
Oh I have gone over and spoken with the home owner. She sort of agrees that they aren't much good but I can tell it is low on her list of priorities. I don't know about the maintaining it myself thing. Generally owners like to know it is being done by paying someone. Even if they do a crappy job.
Why shock the pool? FC is 4. CC is 0. pH and other readings are all good. The phosphates *seem* to be the only reading that is high at 300. Why not scrub the pool and add something to get the phosphates down?
Personally I am really suspect about how good a job the guy did cleaning out the filter cartridge. I mean, if the maintenance of other parts of the system leaves room for improvement, what's to say the filter isn't also full of crud.
The guy probably hates me. I am over his case every time he comes now. It is almost like he tries to arrive, do a stealth FC and pH check, empty the skimmer and leave, all within 5 minutes. But I waltz out of my office to check on his work and ask questions. He probably thinks "oh Crud, here he comes again". But I am always polite, present him with the readings and ask how he would correct the problems. The problem is, he just kind of shrugs his shoulders. I actually want this guy to learn something. He could be helping himself and helping me at the same time. But as they say, you can lead a horse to water...
Oh I have gone over and spoken with the home owner. She sort of agrees that they aren't much good but I can tell it is low on her list of priorities. I don't know about the maintaining it myself thing. Generally owners like to know it is being done by paying someone. Even if they do a crappy job.
Why shock the pool? FC is 4. CC is 0. pH and other readings are all good. The phosphates *seem* to be the only reading that is high at 300. Why not scrub the pool and add something to get the phosphates down?
Personally I am really suspect about how good a job the guy did cleaning out the filter cartridge. I mean, if the maintenance of other parts of the system leaves room for improvement, what's to say the filter isn't also full of crud.
The guy probably hates me. I am over his case every time he comes now. It is almost like he tries to arrive, do a stealth FC and pH check, empty the skimmer and leave, all within 5 minutes. But I waltz out of my office to check on his work and ask questions. He probably thinks "oh Crud, here he comes again". But I am always polite, present him with the readings and ask how he would correct the problems. The problem is, he just kind of shrugs his shoulders. I actually want this guy to learn something. He could be helping himself and helping me at the same time. But as they say, you can lead a horse to water...
I'm guessing that your air leak is coming from the pool vacuum since it is lethargic. Turn off the vacuum to see if that helps. If it does help then one or more of the hoses most likely has a crack in it causing the air to get in the plumbing.
Phosphates is not your problem concerning the algae. Not having enough chlorine in the pool allows the algae to get started and grow. If the pool service wants to pay for the phosphate remover and adhere to the directions on how to use it, they might be able to keep the algae from blooming but it is not required in a properly maintained chlorine pool.
Phosphates is not your problem concerning the algae. Not having enough chlorine in the pool allows the algae to get started and grow. If the pool service wants to pay for the phosphate remover and adhere to the directions on how to use it, they might be able to keep the algae from blooming but it is not required in a properly maintained chlorine pool.
Actually the pool cleaner does not suck it just outputs water and uses the pressure to suck stuff into a bag. As for the algae, I am surprised to get it with my FC of 4 and CC of 0
Just because your FC is at 4ppm does not mean algae can not grow. It may be a slow growth, but still possible...especiallly when CYA is at 45, which is a pool store reading, but let's assume it's right. Also, this is a manually dosed pool, which means your FC may be 4 at the moment, but it does not stay at that level every hour. FC can deplete by half over the course of a sunny day.
simon said:
Ding Ding Ding ... you win a prize!!!
It is very difficult, and not usually following the methods taught here.
One company here, uses very high CYA levels (100+ppm) to reduce the loss rate to the sun and chlorine gas to raise the FC up near shock level ... the FC then drops and they hope the pool does not turn green before they come back. They also tend to float some tablets in the summer to help keep the FC levels up. They also are now trying to stretch it to every 2 weeks. Pool may stay "clear", but not sure if it stays sanitary.
Long conversations with both the weekly pool guy today and his boss, who turned up later.
The long term solution isn't going to be ideal but I think it will be a matter of monitoring them and making sure they do things a little differently than they are used to. I've done my homework. Their way will work, but with a few small changes, it will work better. For example, assuming the FC is within range, instead of each week, adding four large solid tablets to the external chlorinator, I will ask them to leave the chlorinator with two tablets in it and add some bleach, which does not have the same side effects that will eventually require some other chemical or water change. Today he had to add algaecide to get rid of the algae. I made him scrub the pool, which he usually avoids.
Treating the symptoms. Not much else I can do when I rent.
Thanks for everybody's help.
The long term solution isn't going to be ideal but I think it will be a matter of monitoring them and making sure they do things a little differently than they are used to. I've done my homework. Their way will work, but with a few small changes, it will work better. For example, assuming the FC is within range, instead of each week, adding four large solid tablets to the external chlorinator, I will ask them to leave the chlorinator with two tablets in it and add some bleach, which does not have the same side effects that will eventually require some other chemical or water change. Today he had to add algaecide to get rid of the algae. I made him scrub the pool, which he usually avoids.
Treating the symptoms. Not much else I can do when I rent.
Thanks for everybody's help.
simon said:
Algaecide, can help prevent algae in addition to adequate FC levels, but once algae has started to grow, going through the shock process is the only way to kill it. Algaecide wil not stop nor kill algae once it has broken out.
Interesting. I am learning.
So if the pool has just been brushed, the filter is run for 8 hours and the FC/CYA levels remain at 4/45, we can still expect the algae back eh?
That's not good. I am going to have to wait until next Wednesday when he comes back to see what he thinks and does.
In the meantime, the pool is looking clear. At the moment...
(Pool 85 degrees and it's going to be sunny and mid 90's today. Good day for algae)
So if the pool has just been brushed, the filter is run for 8 hours and the FC/CYA levels remain at 4/45, we can still expect the algae back eh?
That's not good. I am going to have to wait until next Wednesday when he comes back to see what he thinks and does.
In the meantime, the pool is looking clear. At the moment...
(Pool 85 degrees and it's going to be sunny and mid 90's today. Good day for algae)
If there was algae, you need to maintain a FC shock level of ~18ppm for a CYA of 45ppm.
4ppm is the MINIMUM the FC should ever be and that will only prevent algae from starting.
Likely it will be below 4ppm in a matter of hours.
4ppm is the MINIMUM the FC should ever be and that will only prevent algae from starting.
Likely it will be below 4ppm in a matter of hours.
This is a really crappy situation, but having your own kit would at least allow you to ensure the pool is going to stay clean.
Not cool to have to do the work for someone who is being paid.
Not cool to have to do the work for someone who is being paid.