High CYA everyear

[KC4life15!]

Hello all,

I have owned a pool for 8 years in North Eastern, KS and with the help of my father (owned the home/pool previously) we have kept it going reasonably well. A recurring issue every year when we open the pool is CYA levels off the chart requiring the draining of water replenished with fresh water. Took my water to be sampled at the local pool store and have the following numbers. I have poked around a bit and understand you guys/gals don't trust these local pool stores and for good reason. I plan on ordering a TF-100 test kit and challenging the numbers below myself.

FC: 14.88
TC: 15
PH: 6.3
TA: 0 (Total Alkalinity has been adjusted due to the effect of CYA on tested Total Alkalinity)
CH: 174
CYA: 169 - ouch-
Iron: 0
Cooper: .7
Phosphates: 926
TDS: 1150

I plan to do the following: Drain as much as I can (without damaging pool) and introduce fresh water. If I am understanding the problem, the chlorinator tablets made up with Trichloro-S-Triazinetrione is made up of a large % of CYA. CYA's job is to protect the chlorine from UV rays transforming it into gas and therefore not staying in the water and killing bacteria. A couple of years back I had an automatic pool cover installed that eliminates direct UV exposure unless I am cleaning the pool or swimming in it. On top of the tablets I was using a Sams Club "members mark" brand of chlorinating shock bags that had a high concentration of CYA.

Moving forward after draining and getting CYA back on track, what is a good regular maintenance system to keep the water where it should be?:
Never use chlorinating tablets ever again to avoid rebuilding up CYA?
Use non stabilized chlorine shock to maintain chlorine levels? If so, how often knowing I have a pool cover?

I appreciate your suggestions and apologize if this is in the wrong section.

 

[V___25]

Hi and welcome! The big thing to keeping CYA under control will be ditching those tabs and switching to liquid chlorine or consider installing a saltwater generator. Using liquid chlorine will require daily addition - you can't just add every few days.
And yes, those pool store results are worth exactly what you paid for them - nothing. The money you spent on draining water and replacing will be better invested in a quality test kit

 

[Oly]

 

[KC4life15!]

Hi and welcome! The big thing to keeping CYA under control will be ditching those tabs and switching to liquid chlorine or consider installing a saltwater generator. Using liquid chlorine will require daily addition - you can't just add every few days.
And yes, those pool store results are worth exactly what you paid for them - nothing. The money you spent on draining water and replacing will be better invested in a quality test kit

I appreciate the reply. Is there really no solution outside of adding chlorine everyday? I read where somebody said if I ditch the tablets, a pool exposed to direct sunlight would need daily chemicals but with an automatic pool cover wouldn't that significantly reduce the dissipation of the chlorine therefore reducing the frequency that chlorine would need to be added?

Is this what everyone does with chlorine setups? Daily liquid chlorine? My father never had this problem(build up of CYA) but he never had a pool cover. Does the sunlight help keep CYA in check? Trying to figure out how he didn't have this problem.

Transitioning to saltwater- how difficult is this? I just bought a ultratemp 110 pool heater, have a hayward pump and a pentair sand filter. Is pool equipment typically able to handle both chlorine and salt water? How much does the salt to chlorine converter/generator tag onto the electricity bill?

 

[V___25]

I don't have a SWG so I'm zero help there but lots of others do so I'm sure they can help. I do add LC daily - in peak summer it's about 4 cups a day. That's the reason many people to go a SWG so they can avoid that daily chlorine add.

 

[KC4life15!]

This was a very helpful video. As I listed, my FC is at 14 PPM with a CYA of 169. The chart in the video shows CYA at 100 requiring 11-13ppm of FC so it's safe to say 160cya/14ppmFC that my FC is too low in relation to my CYA. Does this mean all I need to do is add non stabilized chlorine shock to get my FC up and get back to a better CYA/FC ratio and then I'm good to keep using tablets moving forward? Assuming I buy decent tablets, from my understanding the tablets add about 10ppm chlorine & 7ppm CYA so the chlorine should continue to outpace the CYA as long as I keep the pool cover closed when not using it.

Or do I need to lower the CYA by dumping water and ditch the tablets and add liquid chlorine everyday (pain in the a**)

 

[KC4life15!]

I don't have a SWG so I'm zero help there but lots of others do so I'm sure they can help. I do add LC daily - in peak summer it's about 4 cups a day. That's the reason many people to go a SWG so they can avoid that daily chlorine add.

Got it, that makes sense. Adding daily is a bit much

 

[mknauss]

My father never had this problem(build up of CYA) but he never had a pool cover. Does the sunlight help keep CYA in check?

Did your father use calcium hypochlorite? I suspect so. Did the pool have a sand filter that was backwashed each weekend?

CYA degrades a small amount. 5-10 ppm per month. More in areas of high water temperature (90F) and high UV impact.

 

[V___25]

I don't mind it honestly but I understand how it be tedious. My son is getting old enough where he can do it now and help out so that's nice. In the evening after the sun is off the pool, I just dump in two 2-cup measuring cups worth and go on my way. I don't test every single day.

 

[mknauss]

from my understanding the tablets add about 10ppm chlorine & 7ppm CYA so the chlorine should continue to outpace the CYA as long as I keep the pool cover closed when not using it.

The FC will be used up, regardless of the cover use, albeit slower than if you did not have a cover. The CYA does not get used up. And your FC levels required continuously increase as the CYA increases. So eventually you cannot keep up, and you get algae.

 

[KC4life15!]

Did your father use calcium hypochlorite? I suspect so. Did the pool have a sand filter that was backwashed each weekend?

CYA degrades a small amount. 5-10 ppm per month. More in areas of high water temperature (90F) and high UV impact.

When my father owned the house/managed the pool, the trees in the backyard were much shorter and provided essentially no shade = pool was hit by direct UV light daily. He bought shock & chlorinating tablets from Sam's Club, nothing more advanced then that. I am not sure what the ingredients were in those Sam's Club products back in the day but I do know a few years ago they switched all pool products to "Members Mark" and a lot of people complained they had to much stabilizer and locked their pools, this happened to us. Problem is we were so ignorant to all of this we didn't know the tablets had the same CYA as the newly formulated crappy Sam's Club shock.

 

[mknauss]

If you have been using those tablets, be sure they did not have copper in them. If so, it would be a good idea to do a very healthy drain/exchange to lower the CYA and rid the pool of copper.

 

[KC4life15!]

I don't mind it honestly but I understand how it be tedious. My son is getting old enough where he can do it now and help out so that's nice. In the evening after the sun is off the pool, I just dump in two 2-cup measuring cups worth and go on my way. I don't test every single day.

Yeah, as you put it that way may be I am making too big a deal of it. You use 2 cups for 24Kgal. I have 14K gallon so probably need 18 ounces and will need which means a 1 gallon bottle will last about 7 days. (20) weeks of summer x $4.63/bottle = $92 worth for 20 bottles. Might be the path of least resistance.

 

[V___25]

Sorry, I use 4 cups. I have a 2-cup measuring cup and I use 2 of those but you're generally idea is right. We've thought about switching to SWG but I can't budge the spouse on the initial outlay of $1500-$2000.
Edit: I use 4 cups in peak summer of late June, July and August daily. May, early June, September and October it's about 2 cups. Even less in October until we close.

 

[KC4life15!]

If you have been using those tablets, be sure they did not have copper in them. If so, it would be a good idea to do a very healthy drain/exchange to lower the CYA and rid the pool of copper.

Link to tablets we use: Member's Mark Chlorinating Tablets (40 lbs.) - Sam's Club

Having a hard time finding exact ingredients, my coper reading was high and I have never known how metal is being introduced into the pool- maybe the tablets are the culprit.

I believe everything you guys are saying but I am having a hard time reconciling the fact that the entire industry utilizes the tablets and a chlorinator and that has been wrong all along.

 

[mknauss]

Those are plain trichlor. The Costco ones (Chlorox) have copper.

The copper is likely from copper algaecide.

We just present an easy, low cost, method of sanitation that provides the most pleasant swimming experience. Most of us are now pool nerds, and would likely pass on going into a pool that has high CYA, low FC, likely high CC, and low pH. The typical pool managed as you stated. Most of those pools also smell of chlorine, which means they are under chlorinated.

 

[KC4life15!]

Those are plain trichlor. The Costco ones (Chlorox) have copper.

The copper is likely from copper algaecide.

We just present an easy, low cost, method of sanitation that provides the most pleasant swimming experience. Most of us are now pool nerds, and would likely pass on going into a pool that has high CYA, low FC, likely high CC, and low pH. The typical pool managed as you stated. Most of those pools also smell of chlorine, which means they are under chlorinated.

Interesting, the water is currently crystal clear but it sounds like copper could still be present. Yes, I feel like joining this forum will change how we do everything and enhance our swimming experience. I really appreciate the education and insight.

 

[PoolStored]

@KC4life15!

Inspiration: How Clear is TFP Clear? Let's See (Pics Please).

 

[KC4life15!]

 

[ghall6292]

My pool is roughly the same size as yours. We use a solid winter cover and a manually applied solar cover during swim season. Like others have said, I manually dose liquid chlorine every day, but only test about every two-three days. Sadly, it soon becomes pretty boring.

Last year my total chemical outlay for the season was just shy of about $60. My test kit refills run around $40-$50 per year.

I had previously been on Baquacil, but converted to total TFP three years ago. Average cost/year was around $600 with the Baq. So, for a lot less money and a lot more peace of mind, I would recommend you seriously consider ditching the pool store regimen and go TFP. Honestly, the "add chlorine daily" thing will only take less than two minutes per day- 15 minutes if you're testing everything, then adding what your tests tell you to add. And your wife will like the cost. Happy wife, ... (Maybe she'll be so happy, the SWG might be included in next year's budget.)

Whatever you decide, have a great swim season this year!