Help with commercial pool heater decision.

[Goliath]

Hi All,
I have a condo out in the desert, and it's one of 16 units that surround what I think is a 26,000 (ish) salt water pool.
Recently, a the 4 year old pool heater (Raypak 407A) started leaking from the exchanger, and our HOA is getting bids for replacement.
Both companies that put in bids recommend NOT using another Raypak, due to durability issues, and, after 4 years of medium use, I see why.

The recommended heaters (by the contractors) are either the Jandy JXi, 400, or the Pentair ETi 400. The Jandy is about $5.2k, and the Pentair is about $10.2k (yikes).

From what I can tell, the Jandy is copper, not even cupronickel, and the Pentair is titanium.
Any recommendations on which way to go, or suggestions on other models that are comparable, yet not as pricey as the Pentair?
Longevity, yet best bang for buck, is the idea...

 

[ajw22]

Leaking heat exchanger is usually caused by poor water chemistry. How is pH managed in the pool? The fact the pool is salt water has no effect on the heater.

The Raypak is more reliable and repairable then the Jandy. The Raypak heater is a natural draft heater with simple to maintain components. The Jandy heater is a forced draft heater using a blower. The blower adds complexity and cost to repairing the heater.

We don't see many folks here using the ETI 400 for obvious reasons. It sounds like a work horse but you pay your money and take your chances. The ETI 400 is too new to know how it lasts long term. You can go through two Raypak heaters and probably be ahead of one ETI 400.

I would just get another Raypak heater and maybe a different pool service company.

 

[Goliath]

Thanks for the help.
The Raypak that failed was only slightly over 3 years old. The previous Raypak only lasted slightly longer, so the HOA is leery about putting another one in, although the price is attractive.

What kind of longevity are you seeing (typically) for the Raypaks?
How do you think the Mastertemps rate in comparison?

Do you think a commercial pH controller would be a smart move and, if so, any recommendations for a particular unit?

 

[wireform]

As AJ said it, most likely a water quality issue that's deteriorating it really fast. How about a list of the pool equipment to see if anything there is helping the problem.

 

[ajw22]

Thanks for the help.
The Raypak that failed was only slightly over 3 years old. The previous Raypak only lasted slightly longer, so the HOA is leery about putting another one in, although the price is attractive.

Do those people on the HOA think that Rheem/Raypak is such a shoddy company that they can get away with selling equipment that regularly fails in 3-4 years. Do a bit of research with Rheen/Raypak and their history of selling heaters of all sizes.

Someone should look inside and question if it is you, not them, causing the low life span.

What kind of longevity are you seeing (typically) for the Raypaks?

10-15 years usually. We rarely hear of a heat exchanger failing. They do scale up due to bad water chemistry.

Raypak heaters usually die due to rusting and corrosion in the burner area. It becomes uneconomical to rebuild the burner area of an old heater.

How do you think the Mastertemps rate in comparison?

Heaters are a commodity. They all work basically the same. The Raypak heater design is a natural draft heater. Jandy and Pentair use forced air induction designs with a blower that let the heaters be smaller but use more expensive complex parts.

They all last about the same time in a given environment and usage. There are little differences between them. And most of the differences are marketing and not substance or quality.

Here at TFP we think Raypak is the best on quality based on using TFP methods for your water chemistry.

Do you think a commercial pH controller would be a smart move and, if so, any recommendations for a particular unit?

There is no magic "just install this" and your heater problem will go away.

Someone needs to take a deep dive into your pools maintenance and water chemistry to understand the root cause of the heater failures.

Your problem could be as simple as having a tab chlorinator after the heater without a check valve in between and someone using Trichlor tablets to add CYA and acid to your pool.

Who does the daily/weekly maintenance on that pool? An in-house employee or a pool company?

 

[markayash]

Heaters should last 10 to 15 years. If they are failing that quick their might be a different issue. Have any pictures on how it's setup?

 

[Goliath]

Wow, thanks for the replies. Oddly, I set up TFP to notify on replies, but it did not, so I will need to dive deeper.

I have a regular tenant in our condo in the desert, so pics are not possible yet, as I'm south about 2 hrs (San Diego). I can tell u that I have have noticed the last 2 years that the "Cell" light has been flashing on the SWG at the condo, indicating maintenance may not be as diligent as I thought, which is disturbing.

As one of the homeowners, and someone willing to dive deeper, I have a responsibility to the HOA and other home owners to figure out the best long term solution, as no one else wants to delve into pool chemistry and maintenance. I do the maintenance for my own system, and have the original Pentair heater from 20 years ago; with no issues so far. So I'm shifting my belief in our long term company out at the desert that they may not be doing the pool chemistry properly, leading to the failure of the 407.

So, I may have to recommend to the HOA that, after 20 years, we go with a different company. I spoke with the owner of the pool maintenance company, whose father actually built the pools in many of the complexes here over 20 years ago, and talked about the situation. He was able to speak technically about heater design, and expounded on the fact that Raypak has not kept up with the times, and is doomed for failure. I see now that it may be rhetoric about stuff he can recite off the top of his head, sadly.

Your info has been invaluable. Thank you.

 

[markayash]

Good luck, maybe they can find one and pay for an extended warranty if available?

 

[JamesW]

What records are available?

There should be some sort of documentation available, right?

 

[PoolGate]

Ask the pool maintenance company for a copy of the latest water testing parameters. Ask them what they test and what the ideal levels are for what they test.

 

[Goliath]

It's not likely they keep records of maintenance, but I will check.

 

[PoolGate]

It's not likely they keep records of maintenance, but I will check.

Just for fun, ask them what your CSI is.

Calcium Saturation Index (CSI)

How is CSI calculated? Very simple – use our PoolMath tool. To ensure long plaster life and save money, click here to learn more.

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