Help Needed

FloridaLWR

Well-known member
Jan 2, 2019
48
Florida
Hello,

A few years ago we resurfaced our pool, initially we were really happy with it but one day during winter we heated the pool and one side of the resurfacing started to separated from the pool itself, I’ve been reading about and it is called delamination, anyway it has gotten worst and worst over the past year and the company that did the resurfacing charged me a 10 year warranty which they will not cover (they said several different things, ground movement, water feature leaking, etc) so I don’t want them anywhere close to my property now the question is, I need to hire some other company but I don’t know what should I look for because I would like to make sure they do it right, what should I be looking for in a new company when they do this job?

By the way we have no leaks so we know is delamination.

any help is appreciated
thanks

7A002218-05C9-474C-A95A-7175D242404D.jpg78BF64EC-EF68-4537-867F-C94E5922E24E.jpg847E9F27-430D-47BD-ADE7-17CAAAE73D2B.jpg
 

jatkinson

Well-known member
Dec 25, 2010
91
How do you pay for a 10yr warranty and then not want THEM to fix it? The missing tile raises a flag to me. Delamination is when something that should stick to something; doesn't.
The million dollar question is why did it occur? The answer should be UNDER that chunk on the floor. Knock it off and let's see if the shell is breached or cracked. Funny how it occurred below the missing tiles. Did you have a fountain on that section?
 

sktn77a

Gold Supporter
May 16, 2010
1,764
Chapel Hill, NC
Pool warranties are generally worthless. The pool builders will blame anything and everything that isn't their fault (ground movement, water chemistry. etc). Suing them is an exercise in futility. Live and learn.
 

FloridaLWR

Well-known member
Jan 2, 2019
48
Florida
How do I pay for warranty and don’t use it? Let me explain, when we first re-did the resurfacing we were assured that this was going to last for at least 10 years and that the warranty will cover us and if we sold the house the next owner will be covered as well, sounded pretty well to us!

When the first chunck of the pool came off we called this ‘company’ and they sent a warranty specialist (we never got anything from them) and after a few weeks the company we hired to do the job started saying that we have an aweful case of ground movement...then a few weeks after it was a water feature sipping water behind the wall and they were saying if tou want to fix it pay for it. We’ve kept the chemistry checks weekly for the past 3 years so that was not an issue.

I can understand a water leak on the water feature but we also have the same problem across the water feature, on the steps of the pool as well.

After the third time we talked to this company and we were getting nowhere we filled a BBB complaint and they understood that if the company said that we have a problem with the water feature leaking then that must be it! and closed our case.

So that is a long explanation why we din’t want to pursuit anymore, we have a lawyer friend that auggested sending a lettter to start a litigious process but is not worth it because all the money that we will need to pay for it I can have the pool re-done, hence my initial question, what should I be keeping an eye on when a new company does the job again?

Thanks and sorry for the mile long explanation.

- - - Updated - - -

if it is delamination, what and how should I keep an eye in the next company that does the resurfacing? What should I be asking them to do when doing their job? (other than their job!)

- - - Updated - - -

keith,

painfully true, I’m way past resignation, just want to get this over woth, but every time we use the heater (the middle came off because we heated it to remove some debrie from the middle of the pool) something else comes off and looks even worst than before!
 

kimkats

Mod Squad
LifeTime Supporter
Jul 10, 2012
45,863
Tallahassee, FL
The surface lifted UNDER the waterline tiles???? There should not be plaster under them. Most of the time the tiles are put on then the plaster is put on.

It is really looking like your pool shell was not prepped properly. Do you remember what they did before they put the new plaster on? Did they chip off the old plaster? Did they put a bonding coat on the old surface?

What a nightmare :(

We can help you by telling you want needs to be done by the new plaster people to prep the pool for the new plaster and tile. We will need to know what was done before so we can offer the best advice going forward.
 

setsailsoon

Gold Supporter
LifeTime Supporter
TFP Guide
Oct 25, 2015
3,157
Stuart/FL
Florida,

So sorry you're having to deal with this. What a mess! And I completely understand your frustration with the warranty. I've said many times on this forum the terms and conditions are as important as the specs. Even then, pursuing a warranty claim is a difficult process if the builder wants to resist. I've managed a LOT of industrial concrete construction... not pool construction but I think there are a lot of similarities. Here's my advice on that basis.

Your best defense is a good offense; get a quality pool repair from a contractor that can demonstrate performance in similar work that was successful. This will never be the cheapest price and it can take a lot of work on your end to verify. You'll need to interview several contractors and they will need to inspect your pool to evaluate. Have all of your bidders specify to you in detail the repair process. If it were me, I'd have a pool design engineering company review the pool repair design for you and make recommendations on the inspection (they often also provide 3rd party inspection for you). There are several in Florida to chose from just Google "pool repair design engineering". Their work will also help you pursue a claim against the previous contractor should you decide to.

Now for the good news, creating a joint that will hold up is not rocket science but it does require attention to detail and surface prep is more than 50% of the solution. So you need to be sure the repair contractor has a joint procedure that will work and that it is followed. This means there must be an inspector on-site 100% of the time and the craft labor must be experienced. The only way you can be assured you'll get all this is to get the detail from the contractor and have it agreed in your contract. The better contractors will do this. Beware that when you follow this advice it is difficult to do so without offending some of the contractors. A good contractor will be glad because he'll know you're likely to appreciate his quality. Higher quality contractors have a difficult time finding a buyer that really understands that a quality job isn't usually the lowest price so they need you as much as you need them.

I hope this is helpful.

Chris
 

PoolGate

Gold Supporter
TFP Guide
Jun 7, 2017
4,710
Damascus, MD
Wow that is terrible I feel bad for you.

1st thing is the BBB is a private company that works for the very people you complain to. They are not a governmental agency and have no authority to do anything accept give a bad review for a company. And as long as a company responds to the BBB's request when they get a complaint, they will generally give them a favorable rating.

2nd thing, I would have whomever you use to redo this mess give you in writing their opinion of what is wrong with the pool. I would also suggest getting a 2nd or even 3rd company to do the same professional written opinion of what is wrong (even if they charge for this). If that turns out to be installation issues, then you have a leg to stand on in court. For something like this, you could just go to small claims and let the judge decide. Court filing fees are generally cheap.

But whatever happens good luck I hope it all works out and you are swimming soon!
 
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FloridaLWR

Well-known member
Jan 2, 2019
48
Florida
Sorry for my explanation as english is not my first language sometimes I make a mess of explanations.

it was no under the tiles it was below the tile lines but the first time we heated the pool the surface that was below the tiles came off and lifted up and started pushing the tiles slowly until most of them are gone now (I’ve been taken them out of the pool one or two at a time)

I think good advice was given and at least I have something to work with from now on. I like the idea of getting in writting what is currently wrong with it in case something goes wrong after.

Thanks!!!

The surface lifted UNDER the waterline tiles???? There should not be plaster under them. Most of the time the tiles are put on then the plaster is put on.

It is really looking like your pool shell was not prepped properly. Do you remember what they did before they put the new plaster on? Did they chip off the old plaster? Did they put a bonding coat on the old surface?

What a nightmare :(

We can help you by telling you want needs to be done by the new plaster people to prep the pool for the new plaster and tile. We will need to know what was done before so we can offer the best advice going forward.
- - - Updated - - -

Thank you so much for your answer it helps me understand how to move forward. Now...to find good quality contractors!
 

FloridaLWR

Well-known member
Jan 2, 2019
48
Florida
As a follow up and with all the time we have to be inside we started removing the plaster ourselves now that we have the glass tile to do the pool.
I just wanted to share a video and a few pictures of what happened to us.

5319CEFE-2536-4A7C-8A5A-64DD9322AD3F.jpeg635EBBF7-7878-4D0F-AB78-55EE055DDF49.jpeg25D1B96A-BE94-4159-8F6D-93418CEBF916.jpeg586B3F97-F59A-4C86-98ED-C189707AA65A.jpeg

I’ve tried to attach a video to show how easy the plaster was coming off and how hollow it sounded when I hit it with a hammer, but the backing was perfectly fine, but I couldn’t. I’ll try later to do it again.
Retry: I don't know how to post videos here so I just uploaded to YouTube

In one place when I hit it with the hammer water started to come out ?. Also you can see how the pressure plug was inside the plaster so some chipping away was needed to get it out.

Also found out that the “new” tiles in the steps were just installed on top of the old ones (I really think this was the starting point of failure)

I think it was just a lousy job done so now I need to find some Laticrete 254 to start recovering this pool.
 
Last edited:

Arizonarob

Gold Supporter
Silver Supporter
TFP Guide
Mar 25, 2018
3,845
Chandler Arizona
That plaster was just hovering above the gunite shell. Really bad job from the start. With that video, you have prof of how bad it was, and you should go after them.
 

FloridaLWR

Well-known member
Jan 2, 2019
48
Florida
Yeah, I should have done this sooner but I didn't want to empty the pool without having everything ready to put it back.


Now I'm focused on deciding if I should just use Laticrete 254 on top of what's left after I remove the plaster and then the tiles on top of that or if I should do something else.




That plaster was just hovering above the gunite shell. Really bad job from the start. With that video, you have prof of how bad it was, and you should go after them.
 

Pool Clown

In The Industry
Sep 5, 2008
2,140
Silicon Valley, CA
No, you have lots of prep ahead if you want the next re plaster to adhere properly. All of the re plaster has to come off and "chip" all of the old plaster underneath. Then get every bit of non plaster material off with a pressure washer. Find the highest output pressure you can find. Maybe rent a gas powered one. You want the surface to be as clean and rough as possible. I wouldn't advise using a bonding material or "bond coat".

Ground movement creates cracks, not delaminations. A leak in your water feature (in the right place) MAY cause delamination, but it would be localized to the area. It wouldn't likely spread throughout the whole pool.
 

WhiteWine

Well-known member
Nov 4, 2018
57
Orlando
I'm from Central Florida, and redid my pool a couple months ago that looked just like yours and seemed to have similar issues.
It appears that you had a quartz plaster (resurfaced once or twice before potentially) installed over the original marcite plaster (the white showing after the top layer is coming off). You have not hit the original gunite yet, that would be showing grey in color.

In the past they wouldn't not do a Bond Kote between the original marcite plaster and the quartz re-plaster. This appears to be where the delamination is occurring (very common in Central Florida).

This is my 2 cents and what I have done on my pool after much research:

Make sure your hydrostatic vavle is open. It has been dry lately in Florida, but if it starts to rain, the ground water may raise. Especially if your pool remain empty for some time.

1. Removed all the quartz plaster down to the original white marcite (which was still adhered very strongly). A few places the original marcite was able to be removed, and I roughed up the original marcite some with my chipping hammer. But at this point, I no Zero hollow or empty sounds on the plaster.
2. I removed all the existing tile, smoothed the area behind the tiles with hydraullic cement as there where large voids back there. Did two layers of Red Guard waterproofing membrane where the tiles would be installed.
3. Installed the new pool tiles (Make sure you use a thinset rated to be fully submerged under water). I used Custom's Prolite from home depot. It is rated for fully submersed applications and readily available. Make sure you let the tile thinset cure the recommended time in the spec sheet (14 days).
4. Pressure wash / wash the surface. You do not want dust on the surface. Alot of people recommend pressure washing the old plaster off, but I used a 4000 PSI, 4 GPM commercial pressure washer with a zero nozzle on mine, it it did not make a dent removing the old plaster.
5. I then installed the SMG Bond Kote (follow the mixing instructions and application instructions on this). This is probably the most contested advise I have found on this forum. Alot of people water it down and that is why it doesn't seem to work for them (I used the 2 part system that is mixed with epoxy, not sure how the 1 step one works). Mixed correctly it comes out thick, gritty and provides an excellent adhesion to the existing substrate. Bond Kote is a PITA to roll on correctly when it is thick. I will stress again that cheap installers water it down to make it roll on easy like paint. After installed the pool will be a very Dark Grey and have a very rough texture.
6. At this point I had someone install the new plaster.