Help me with my Pool Equipment

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ParB said:
That's what I was thinking. Maybe even take out my pressure washer and use that with the widest spray nozzle to clean it with. That way I can direct the dirt and shampoo towards the pool cover pump.
Click to expand...

although that would be easier, i think youll find it cleans easily enough with Dawn and a brush. i would be concerened that with the pressure washer one slip and you could damage the cover especially if it is several years old. how old is it and do you a a pump that sits on the cover?
 
Hi all,

i had some time over lunch (Working from home due to the corona shelter in place but i'm still busy) to look at a few things.
I haven't had time to direct wire a laptop to the switch where screenlogic runs. i'll get to that over the weekend. My main computer in my office is 2 or 3 network switches away from that device. I'll get to it over the weekend.

First off a picture with all the pumps. I labelled them by usage (which i deduced by turning on circuits in the app on my cell phone):
IMG_20200501_121604-2.jpg

On the back there are a couple of pipes with motorized switches:

IMG_20200501_122039-2.jpg

What i figured out:
- If i turn on the pool circuit, the spa & pool pump runs for a few seconds (maybe 30) at full RPM before it switches down to lower RPM.
- If i turn on the SPA circuit the motorized handle in the back turns to the right and the spa&pool pump continues to run if the Spa&Pool Pump was already running.
- If the Spa&Pool pump wasn't running then it starts up at an initial high RPM before it switches down to a lower RPM.

Additionally
- If i run the SPA circuit the spa drains about halfway, and i find that enough pool water trickles over the edges that it doesn't empty after that, i assume enough water gets pushed into the pool that this is the equilibrium.
- If i run the pool circuit after the SPA circuit it trickles over pool water a bit faster, and it refills the spa relatively quickly. I take that to mean one should always run the pool circuit then the spa circuit, then the pool circuit again. (eg run the spa circuit towards the end of the pool circuit so that the spa fills with freshly filtered pool water).

So is this what is typical? You clean the spa by draining the spa and trickling in pool water over the edge? Seems like the obvious way to do it for me, who knows nothing about pools.

I assume i got to run the main pool pump circuit long enough that all water filters through it. I haven't calculated the flow of the pump (kind of hard since i don't know which RPM and what that translates to in GPH). But absent of me running full on calculations (which i will do), what are the typical defaults? When i took over the pool it was setup to run 8 hours per day, and the spa ran for 30 minutes per day. Does that seem right?

I haven't had time to look at the heater circuits. That will come next.

And i'll order the chemistry kit next. This is a bit of a sidebar but...
I read in the beginners part of the forum the following:
"The best investment you can make in your pool is a top quality water test kit. Accurate water test results will save you time and money again and again. The TF Test Kits TF100, Taylor K2006 , and Leslie's Chlorine FAS-DPD Service Test Kit are the current stand-out choices on the market. All three include the FAS-DPD chlorine test, and are based on Taylor chemistry. "

This post is 12 years old. In the last 12 years there have been no improvement on testing? Like a digital tester that does all the testing for me and logs history on my behalf?
Seems so old-school to play around with reagents and paper in todays highly digitized world...?
 
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Comments in blue...

- If i turn on the pool circuit, the spa & pool pump runs for a few seconds (maybe 30) at full RPM before it switches down to lower RPM. That is the pump starting in priming mdoe. It is normal operation. You can set max RPM for priming if you want.
- If i turn on the SPA circuit the motorized handle in the back turns to the right and the spa&pool pump continues to run if the Spa&Pool Pump was already running. Pump should run but both actuators should turn. Only the spa suction turning on is why your spa is partially draining.
- If the Spa&Pool pump wasn't running then it starts up at an initial high RPM before it switches down to a lower RPM. Priming mode at pump start again.

Additionally
- If i run the SPA circuit the spa drains about halfway, and i find that enough pool water trickles over the edges that it doesn't empty after that, i assume enough water gets pushed into the pool that this is the equilibrium. That is not correct operation. Your actuator on the return is set to be partially open so water flows to both the pool and spa. In spa mode it should turn to close the return to the pool and send all water to the spa. Your suction is pulling more water from he spa then what is being returned which is why the spa is draining.
- If i run the pool circuit after the SPA circuit it trickles over pool water a bit faster, and it refills the spa relatively quickly. I take that to mean one should always run the pool circuit then the spa circuit, then the pool circuit again. (eg run the spa circuit towards the end of the pool circuit so that the spa fills with freshly filtered pool water). It means your spa mode is not working properly. Your spa should stay full in both modes.

So is this what is typical? You clean the spa by draining the spa and trickling in pool water over the edge? Seems like the obvious way to do it for me, who knows nothing about pools.

Fix your return actuator so it turns when in SPA mode. Your spa should always stay full.

We do not recommend having your return valve set for the spillover to run when in POOL mode. Running that way causes constant pH rise from the aeration of the spillover. You should reset the cam on the actuator to have the spa return closed when in pool mode and the pool return closed when in spa mode. Then enable your SPILLOVER mode in your ET and program the ET to run your spillover once or twice a day for 15 to 30 minutes to refresh the water in the spa.

I assume i got to run the main pool pump circuit long enough that all water filters through it. I haven't calculated the flow of the pump (kind of hard since i don't know which RPM and what that translates to in GPH). But absent of me running full on calculations (which i will do), what are the typical defaults? When i took over the pool it was setup to run 8 hours per day, and the spa ran for 30 minutes per day. Does that seem right?

If your pool is staying clean then it works for you.

www.troublefreepool.com

Determine Pump Run Time

To figure out how many hours you need to run your pump, you need to know how fast your pump works. You can find this here.
www.troublefreepool.com www.troublefreepool.com

Seems so old-school to play around with reagents and paper in todays highly digitized world...? Digital may be precise but not accurate. There is digital test equipment in labs. They cost much more then a basic chemical test kit and digital testers need constant calibration with calibrating solutions.
 
Last edited:
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ParB said:
Like a digital tester that does all the testing for me and logs history on my behalf?
Click to expand...
Chemical automation is what that is called. Most commercial pools, water parks, etc. have to have them, at least in the places I have worked. I am most familiar with chem-trol, but I believe pentair and hayward have some too. The sensors are fickle, must be kept wet even when the pool is winterized, and frequently replaced. The ones I worked on ran 2 stenner pumps, one for liquid chlorine, the other for muriatic acid, or sometimes a CO2 solenoid. Quite expensive, but continuous monitoring and on demand feed for cl and ph. Just keep the tanks full, and you never touch it.
It is a good idea to still test from time to time to catch failing sensors early.
 

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Nice reply Allen.. you hit all the points.

@ParB nice pics.. they really show what is what!

You said you had a couple of switches between the controller and your PC in the house. Make sure one is not a router and they are uplinked through the WAN port. Then you will have a FW between your pool equipment and house PC that would prevent communication going in both directions. There might even be a VLAN somewhere in there. Just a thought. Plugging your laptop directly into the controller would bypass all of that.
 
ParB said:
I haven't had time to direct wire a laptop to the switch where screenlogic runs. i'll get to that over the weekend. My main computer in my office is 2 or 3 network switches away from that device. I'll get to it over the weekend.
Click to expand...
Any number of normal (unmanaged, passive) network switches between the 2 devices should be totally transparent to the devices and make no difference. Managed switches might cause problems, but most people don't have those in their home networks. I have 5 switches in my home network (plus the 4 switches built into my router and 3 wireless access points), all different brands and they are completely invisible as far as my devices are concerned. I think equipment manufacturers want users to eliminate as many devices in the signal path as possible just to reduce the number of variables while troubleshooting. I'd be very surprised if connecting the PC to the same switch as the SL protocol adapter made any difference.
 
ajw22 said:
Comments in blue...

- If i turn on the pool circuit, the spa & pool pump runs for a few seconds (maybe 30) at full RPM before it switches down to lower RPM. That is the pump starting in priming mdoe. It is normal operation. You can set max RPM for priming if you want.
- If i turn on the SPA circuit the motorized handle in the back turns to the right and the spa&pool pump continues to run if the Spa&Pool Pump was already running. Pump should run but both actuators should turn. Only the spa suction turning on is why your spa is partially draining.
- If the Spa&Pool pump wasn't running then it starts up at an initial high RPM before it switches down to a lower RPM. Priming mode at pump start again.

Additionally
- If i run the SPA circuit the spa drains about halfway, and i find that enough pool water trickles over the edges that it doesn't empty after that, i assume enough water gets pushed into the pool that this is the equilibrium. That is not correct operation. Your actuator on the return is set to be partially open so water flows to both the pool and spa. In spa mode it should turn to close the return to the pool and send all water to the spa. Your suction is pulling more water from he spa then what is being returned which is why the spa is draining.
- If i run the pool circuit after the SPA circuit it trickles over pool water a bit faster, and it refills the spa relatively quickly. I take that to mean one should always run the pool circuit then the spa circuit, then the pool circuit again. (eg run the spa circuit towards the end of the pool circuit so that the spa fills with freshly filtered pool water). It means your spa mode is not working properly. Your spa should stay full in both modes.

So is this what is typical? You clean the spa by draining the spa and trickling in pool water over the edge? Seems like the obvious way to do it for me, who knows nothing about pools.

Fix your return actuator so it turns when in SPA mode. Your spa should always stay full.

We do not recommend having your return valve set for the spillover to run when in POOL mode. Running that way causes constant pH rise from the aeration of the spillover. You should reset the cam on the actuator to have the spa return closed when in pool mode and the pool return closed when in spa mode. Then enable your SPILLOVER mode in your ET and program the ET to run your spillover once or twice a day for 15 to 30 minutes to refresh the water in the spa.

I assume i got to run the main pool pump circuit long enough that all water filters through it. I haven't calculated the flow of the pump (kind of hard since i don't know which RPM and what that translates to in GPH). But absent of me running full on calculations (which i will do), what are the typical defaults? When i took over the pool it was setup to run 8 hours per day, and the spa ran for 30 minutes per day. Does that seem right?

If your pool is staying clean then it works for you.

www.troublefreepool.com

Determine Pump Run Time

To figure out how many hours you need to run your pump, you need to know how fast your pump works. You can find this here.
www.troublefreepool.com www.troublefreepool.com

Seems so old-school to play around with reagents and paper in todays highly digitized world...? Digital may be precises but not accurate. There is digital test equipment in labs. They cost much more then a basic chemical test kit and digital testers need constant calibration with calibrating solutions.
Click to expand...

Really useful information. I'll talk to the pool company about the settings and the actuator to get them to fix the problem.
So when i run the pool with the spa circuit active and no other circuits active it should not be draining the spa, just sending the water through the filter and back to the spa?
 
ParB said:
So when i run the pool with the spa circuit active and no other circuits active it should not be draining the spa, just sending the water through the filter and back to the spa?
Click to expand...

Yes.
 
Rocket J Squirrel said:
Any number of normal (unmanaged, passive) network switches between the 2 devices should be totally transparent to the devices and make no difference. Managed switches might cause problems, but most people don't have those in their home networks. I have 5 switches in my home network (plus the 4 switches built into my router and 3 wireless access points), all different brands and they are completely invisible as far as my devices are concerned. I think equipment manufacturers want users to eliminate as many devices in the signal path as possible just to reduce the number of variables while troubleshooting. I'd be very surprised if connecting the PC to the same switch as the SL protocol adapter made any difference.
Click to expand...

I'm with you on this. And i've been part of developing a fair amount of networking technologies in my career. But i'll try it out just in case. Worst case its a phone call to pentair for help.
 
RDspaguy said:
Chemical automation is what that is called. Most commercial pools, water parks, etc. have to have them, at least in the places I have worked. I am most familiar with chem-trol, but I believe pentair and hayward have some too. The sensors are fickle, must be kept wet even when the pool is winterized, and frequently replaced. The ones I worked on ran 2 stenner pumps, one for liquid chlorine, the other for muriatic acid, or sometimes a CO2 solenoid. Quite expensive, but continuous monitoring and on demand feed for cl and ph. Just keep the tanks full, and you never touch it.
It is a good idea to still test from time to time to catch failing sensors early.
Click to expand...

I got to look into this. I am in a climate where i don't winterize, its year round above freezing so maybe it will be different for my setup.
 
I talked to my pool company last night. He told me the same as you did, an actuator needs service. It will be looked into on Monday. Thanks!

Separately, I found a digital chemistry tester that uses reagent and reads light transmissions through the reagent. It's called lamotte spin touch. My brother works in devices used in research and this is a very similar technology used in lab automation. Its not the cheapest, but cost per test isn't horrible at approx $2/test for consumables. I haven't looked at the cloud subscription cost yet. The device is $1k so not cheap but over a decade of use ita not super terrible either.

Anyone tried this device?
www.poolsupplyunlimited.com

LaMotte WaterLink Mobile Spin Touch Photometer On-Site Pool & Spa Water Digital Testing | 3581

Pool Supply Unlimited has some of the best prices when shopping for LaMotte WaterLink Mobile Spin Touch Photometer On-Site Pool & Spa Water Digital Testing | 3581
www.poolsupplyunlimited.com www.poolsupplyunlimited.com
 

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