Help! EasyTouch 8 Pentair System Alarm Notification

[JB2]

Greetings all. I am on the forum almost daily, but don't have many post to my name. I just opened up my pool last night for the first time, we had it installed in October last year. No surprises.

I got the following alarm notification from my EasyThouch 8 this morning. I got the same one a few times last fall before the PB did the first close for me. My question: Did the PB's electrician hook up my pump correctly to my EasyTouch? Here are a few of shots of my wiring.

Should I be worried?




Report Date: 4/12/2017
Report Time: 5:04:33 AM

Customer Name:
Address:
City: Hudsonville
ZIP: 49426
Phone:

Adapter Version POOL: 5.2 Build 733
Protocol Adapter Serial #
IntelliTouch Model EasyTouch2 8-circuit / IntelliChlor IC40
Firmware Version 2.140
Air Temperature 41 F
Pool Pump Off
Pool Set Point 60 F
Pool Actual Temperature 46 F
Pool Heat Mode Off
Spa Pump On
Spa Set Point 40 F
Spa Actual Temperature 45 F
Spa Heat Mode Off
Spa-Side Remote Disabled
Lights On 0 / 2
IntelliFlo Pump Present? Yes
Alarms 2
Salt Level (ppm) -
Pool Chlorine Output -
Spa Chlorine Output -
pH -
ORP -
Acid Tank Level -
Chlorine Tank Level -
Water Balance -
Status Working

Alarm Details:
IntelliFlo Pump #1: Power Outage Alarm - The supply voltage is low. Ensure that the pump is receiving proper supply voltage.

IntelliFlo Pump #1: Communications Lost - ScreenLogic is unable to communicate with the pump. Check the communication cable.

 

[Jimrahbe]

JB,

Technically, no it is not... It is however how a lot of people do it...

The pump's GFCI circuit breaker is not supposed to power anything but the pump. That is called out specifically in the IntelliFlo's manual. Your system is using this breaker to also power the SWCG's transformer and maybe other things, it is hard to tell in the pic.

The reason for this is to prevent random and intermittent trips of the GFCI breaker. It does not happen often, so a lot of installation people do what your guy did and wire in the SWCG's transformer into the pump's breaker.

Is it the cause of your problem, who knows for sure, and since the failure happens so intermittently it would be hard to tell.

I say this assuming the failure you are having is that the IntelliFlo's GFCI has popped..

I would not be worried, but it is not correct and I would want to fix it.

A pretty simple fix.. Add a circuit breaker to power the input side of the Pump/Filter relay and make sure the pump's GFCI is only powering the pump itself.

If you can, it would also be a good idea to install a Surge Protector inside your enclosure to help protect your investment.

Thanks for posting,

Jim R.

 

[JB2]

Thank you for your reply Jim. If you don't mind, I'm going to supply a few more pictures have a few followup questions.



I'm confused why I am getting the alert email notification saying that Power Outage Alarm and Communications Lost? My Pumps GFCI is not tripped when I checked the panel today.

A pretty simple fix.. Add a circuit breaker to power the input side of the Pump/Filter relay and make sure the pump's GFCI is only powering the pump itself.

How would this be wired up in my panel? I am not a electrician, but can do some wiring as long as I know exactly what needs to go with what and where.

Here is a my control board showing my surge protector and breakers.



Thank you.

 

[Jimrahbe]

JB,

Sorry, I missed the surge protector on the outside. That should work fine.

Is your pump running? I had assumed the GFCI had popped.

Try resetting the breaker and if they don't clear your alarm, you can turn ScreenLogic off and then on again.

***** I just looked at your setup again and it appears to me that it is wired to remove the power from your Intelliflo every time the pump filter relay shuts off. This is wrong. The pump should have constant power. Your current problem may be that your relay is bad or intermittent or could be a false alarm due to turning the pump on/off...

I can't give you step by step instructions, because I can't tell for sure where the wires go once they get into a bundle of the same color. But I can tell you what your results should be..

1. The output of the Pump's GFCI breaker should leave the CB and connect directly to the red and black wires coming from the pump. Nowhere else.

2. The red and black wires that currently run from the pump's GFCI CB to the input side of the Pump/Filter relay, need to be removed and replaced with new wires that go to a new 220 volt CB that will now supply power to the SWCG's transformer and anything else connected to the output side of the pump filter relay. (Except of course the Intelliflo pump).

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[jasong]

before you go and spend money on a new GFI, test it this way:

1. Turn off the GFI
2. On the top left relay, place both black wires under the 1st screw. Leave yellow under 2nd screw
3. Place both red wires under the 3rd screw. Leave white under the 4th screw
4. Turn back on and let it run a few days to see if the alarm comes back.

If that works, I would personally go this route.
1. Wire pump directly to breaker
2. convert SWCG to 120v
3. Drop in a new 20amp breaker
4. Wire SWCG transformer to relay

There is not a need for a GFCI on a transformer load.

The other thing I would trace out in there in relay 7 and 8 that look like they are connected to your low voltage lighting transformers. It appears as if they are breaking the Neutral. not correctly installed.

 

[jasong]

....

 

[JB2]

I did some panel cleanup of the wiring this weekend. The only thing I don't have hooked up is the IC40.

Do I need to connect this to a new breaker? I only have 3 of the 10 slots remaining and would still like to add landscape lighting, power to my Gazebo and my work shed.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[jasong]

First thing to do is remove those white wires from the right hand relays.You should not break the neutral. Go from the breaker Neutral directly to the tranformers via the wire nut that is already there


Those wires you are holding are the 220V connection to the chlorinator. You can look at the door and it tells you how to wire it for 120V. Run to Home Depot and grap a 20amp single pole Siemens breaker. Wire from the breaker to relay 1 {pump relay} and then to the transformer. When relay 1 comes on, you will be running your SWCG.

EDIT:

If you want to use the existing 220v breaker, this is how my system is wired. You would put the breaker wires and pump wires under the same screw on the relay NOT THE BREAKER
If you want to use existing breaker, see attachedView attachment 59336

 

[Jimrahbe]

JB,

The manual for your Intelliflo pump specifically states NOT to use the pump's GFCI Circuit Breaker for anything else.. From the CB to the pump and than is it..

I recommend you use a new 220 volt circuit breaker to apply power to both input sides of the Pump/Filter relay. The yellow and white wires from the transformer go to the two outputs of the relay.

You can always take power from the new CB to run your other projects..

Jim R.

 

[jasong]

View attachment 59357

The Pentair manual does not want you using other breakers in fear of the breaker being off and the automation trying to run it. Being that the SWCG and Pump go hand in hand, there is no reason not to use the same breaker as in my drawing.

If you feel you want to add another breaker, re-wire the transformer to 120v and put in a single pole breaker. No need to waste the space on a 2 pole breaker.

 

[Jimrahbe]

View attachment 59357

The Pentair manual does not want you using other breakers in fear of the breaker being off and the automation trying to run it. Being that the SWCG and Pump go hand in hand, there is no reason not to use the same breaker as in my drawing.

If you feel you want to add another breaker, re-wire the transformer to 120v and put in a single pole breaker. No need to waste the space on a 2 pole breaker.

Ja,

Actually, the reason they only want you to use the GFCI for just the pump is because the Intelliflo has, or had, a very intermittent issue with falsely tripping the GFCI. Eliminating anything else on the CB was one of the ways to try and eliminate it. When they said "be sure that no lights or appliances are on the same circuit" they mean not to connect anything else, not just "lights" and "appliances". They speak in "Pentair"..

But, I will be the first to admit that the false trips are rare and very intermittent, so using the same breaker works in most cases. I just don't see a need to tempt fate.

Your idea to wire the transformer for 110 and safe a breaker slot sounds like a good plan to me..

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[jasong]

If you want to double down on the breaker space, you can get a tandem....I hate them but there available and I will admit, I have one in my panel but use it for less critical items like lighting.

I understand why pentair did what they did and I am sure it cut there calls in half on the tripped GFI.

The other one that typically blows the mind of most electricians and inspectors is the GFI breaker on a low voltage lighting transformer. The transformer would need to have a complete melt down prior to tripping the GFI and by that time would have tripped on over current. The guy that wired my controller hung my pool light transformer on the secondary side of a cheap GFI receptacle. Every time I did a color change, the inrush would cause a false trip.


Siemens 20 Amp Tandem Single-Pole Type QT Circuit Breaker-Q2020U - The Home Depot

 

[The dog]

Here's the diagram from my manual. Connect the yellow and white wires from the salt generator transformer to the same relay as your pump.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Jimrahbe]

Dog,

Not to be picky, but the OP has a variable speed pump and the power to the pump itself does go through any relays.

As you indicate however, the power to the SWCG's transformer must go through the Pump/Filter relay..

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[jasong]

That was how it was origionally wired. The issue us when the relay opens, the system looses communications with the pump. The pump start / stop / speed all comes into the pump via the communications bus so it causes issues during a power down.

 

[The dog]

Jason, that sounds more like a low voltage control issue and not a power issue. I'd double check the control wires behind the top panel and make sure all the connections are good. Maybe even a bad circuit board.

My system had a problem keeping time and it would reset randomly during the day. I called pentair warranty for help. They sent a tech out and he replaced my main mother board and reprogrammed the system. If you have had this "professionally" installed you should have a 3 year warranty on it. Just call pentair and have them look at it. It's free.

By the way, the electrician that hooked up your system was very messy. He should have cleaned up those wires. That is very unprofessional looking


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[JB2]

By the way, the electrician that hooked up your system was very messy. He should have cleaned up those wires. That is very unprofessional looking

Tell me about it! I would really appreciate it if anyone would be willing to share to what their EasyTouch wiring looks like inside.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[jasong]

If you look at the first set of pictures, it shows the pump ans swcg connected to the output of the pump relay. This means when the swcg cycled, the pump lost power. This indicates a high voltag issue, not a controls issue.

 

[The dog]

That's the way mine is wires Jason and I have no problems at all. The only thing I saw that didn't look correct was that the neutral wires were attached to the relays on the right side. Like you said. You don't do that. Neutrals don't need to be switched, only the hots.

Sure, when I get home after work I'll take some pictures of my system and post them.

I can tell you now that my 2p giving breaker powers both the pump and the salt water generator and they are hooked up to the same relay. I'd suggest again that you call pentair and have their local guy come out. They hooked me up and I didn't even need to complain. I've had 3 warranty issues in the first 30 days of owing my equipment. I have a full set up of pentair parts.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[jasong]

Can you confirm the pump and swg are on the output of the relay? Mine is wired as in the above drawing i did so the pump is wired to the relay but not thru the relay. No matter what state the relay is in, my pump always has power.