Haziness revisited

dalehileman

Well-known member
Aug 1, 2009
86
Apple Valley, Ca
Thank you guys for Pool School and I assure you I am reading it every day vigilantly . However to quickly put me on the right track--where under PS is haziness discussed

For about 10 years water has been clear blue-green with only a weekly addition of a few Cl tabs and the addition of a couple of quarts of supermarket algi-clari. However we couldn't open our eyes underwater so for the last couple of years I have also regularly added soda ash with the disadvantage of cloudiness--however dispelled in about a week by the filter (running 3 hours a day), then clear till pH runs low once more

Yet when present it's nuisance because I can't see how my Polaris 380 is performing down there at the bottom while any visitors are skeptical of my pool care

But just the other day though I had added no chemicals for several days and the water was clear, for no apparent reason a heavy white foam was created by the action of my Polaris puller whereupon the following morning the water was again cloudy--though I no longer am getting the foam

Presently pH=7.2-7.8; Cl=0.5; TA=120-180; CYA (stabilizer) 150

Of course Cl is lower than generally recommended while I have never been able to achieve a value much higher. However, at least during the first decade or so this hasn't proved problematical

Running 6 to 7 hours a day it seems to be clearing but very slowly so I expect the present cloudiness will pass after another week or two but meanwhile my electric bill is driving me out of house and home

....yes I am considering the switch to VF to cut the utility but I am getting conflicting reports so need further study but in the meantime your comments are invited and thanks for all present and future help
 

danbutter

Well-known member
May 3, 2009
105
I'll point out one thing specifically:
pool-school/recommended_levels
and with the ranges you post I'm gonna guess you are testing with strips?
Someone will visit with the right name as I don't recall, but there is a recommended test kit that does a much better job.

I personally only adjust TA and PH very rarely...you having to add soda ash on a regular basis doesn't seem right either.

You are in the right place to get help so just keep coming back to this thread until you are crystal clear!
 

dalehileman

Well-known member
Aug 1, 2009
86
Apple Valley, Ca
"I'll point out one thing specifically:
pool-school/recommended_levels"

dan thank you for that link. Note: SWG not found in PS Defs and Abbreviations

"....and with the ranges you post I'm gonna guess you are testing with strips?"

Good guess

...."but there is a recommended test kit that does a much better job."

Thank you and I will look into it. If it requires color comparisons however I can't see how it would beat the strips

"I personally only adjust TA and PH very rarely...you having to add soda ash on a regular basis doesn't seem right either."

I found the boost necessary after unsuccessfully attempting to increase the FC level using a large number of Cl tabs. But since I gave up trying that route the pH has been pretty steady. The sudden foaming then haziness apparently wasn't caused by soda ash. Would the TA level cause haziness because if so I will surely look into it also

"You are in the right place to get help......"

Thank you again most kindly
 

dalehileman

Well-known member
Aug 1, 2009
86
Apple Valley, Ca
As the foaming and subsequent cloudiness followed a swimming visit by friends I'm wondering if the condition might have been caused instead by their use of sunblock
 

anonapersona

TFP Expert
LifeTime Supporter
Nov 5, 2008
2,598
Of course Cl is lower than generally recommended while I have never been able to achieve a value much higher
What method was it that failed when you tried to raise chlorine level?
 

PaulR

LifeTime Supporter
Jan 11, 2009
1,966
Cupertino, CA
dalehileman said:
If it requires color comparisons however I can't see how it would beat the strips
Only the pH test requires a color comparison. For all other tests, you count drops looking for the color to change, or to disappear. The results are more consistent and reliable than the strips, as well.
--paulr
 

dalehileman

Well-known member
Aug 1, 2009
86
Apple Valley, Ca
"What method was it that failed when you tried to raise chlorine level?"

Adding more Cl tabs. At one point I had tossed in a total of 19 tabs with no increase in FC. Some of the experts say that's because my CYA level is too high but others dispute that. Nonetheless at the close of the season I am contemplating replacement of all 35000 gallons as I'm advised that's the only feasible way of resetting it
 

anonapersona

TFP Expert
LifeTime Supporter
Nov 5, 2008
2,598
dalehileman said:
"What method was it that failed when you tried to raise chlorine level?"

Adding more Cl tabs. At one point I had tossed in a total of 19 tabs with no increase in FC. Some of the experts say that's because my CYA level is too high but others dispute that. Nonetheless at the close of the season I am contemplating replacement of all 35000 gallons as I'm advised that's the only feasible way of resetting it
So, have you found an expert that you are willing to trust? I do suggest that you find one that you are willing to follow and to take ALL the actions that person recommends. You can't get this solved by picking some from Column A and some from Column B like some Chinese restaurant. I believe that you have posted here before and then been reluctant to actually do what was suggested. For example, you don't have a test kit yet do you? I am sure that this was recommended before.
 

lightingguy

LifeTime Supporter
Jun 17, 2010
513
Glendale, CA
Couple things :

1) 3 hrs a day is probably not enough time to properly filter 35,000 gallons. Maybe you pump 100GPM and get 1/2 flop per day. If it's closer to 50gpm though - 1/4 flop a day.....

2) CYA of 150 and CL of .5 - it's not just that it is "lower than generally recommended" - all that CYA renders your small amount of CL unable to fight off all the organics in your pool. Also your strips top out at 150 right? So is it 300?

3) Describing your water as a clear "Blue-Green" makes me think of a lake, not a pool.

You sound skeptical and frustrated and just want an answer to the foam question. The foam could be a lot of things. I seriously doubt TA or sunblock have anything to do with it though.

My guess is you got things growing in your pool. All that algecide keeps it attenuated - but it's still there and you dont have enough chlorine in the water to oxidize anything.

OPTION 1 - Shock the pool. At 35K Gal it's going to be a whole lot more chemical than you're used to. And it'll probably go really cloudy. That's all the organics being killed. Honestly I went through this process and was skeptical at first. But it works.

Throwing in 20 pucks is not shocking the pool. The reason you can't get your level up is all the organics in your pool gobbling up that slowly dissolving chlorine. That algae is always growing. It never stops. So you got to kill it dead dead dead or you'll be back to square 1 in no time.

OPTION 2 - Drain it and refill is a really good idea. You'll save the $ on chems for shocking and start over with the CYA, get rid of all that algecide copper build up, etc. BUT - If you just go back to pucks exclusively you'll be back to the same situation in a year or two.
 

dalehileman

Well-known member
Aug 1, 2009
86
Apple Valley, Ca
"1) 3 hrs a day is probably not enough time....."

Guy you're right about that and I have temporarily stretched it out to 6-7 hrs a day until it clears up but living on a fixed income I'm trying to minimize the electric bill. Still seriously considering the VF though I'm still entertaining some misgivings about it

"2) ...... your strips top out at 150 right? So is it 300?"

AquaCheck TYA tops out at 300. My shade indicates 100-150 but I hate to drain the pool on that account alone since I'm still wondering what to do with 35000 gallons of water

"3) Describing your water as a clear "Blue-Green" makes me think of a lake, not a pool."

I call it Lake Dalehileman and yes I do envy all you fellas with blue pools. However it's not entirely evident that a small amount of algae is awfully harmful

"You sound skeptical......I seriously doubt TA or sunblock have anything to do with it though."

Thank you for that assessment. Yes I do tend to skepticism and whimsey if not outright facetiousness that bothers some participants and for which I apologize most profusely

I'm incidentally not so concerned now about the foam because the condition apparently lasts only for a day or two though the haze that follows it is more persistent

"OPTION 1 - Shock the pool.......was skeptical at first. But it works."

Yes I think you're right and so recently had taken to 1 lb Shock Quick/week. I hate to yet do anything more precipitous because after the last massive round of algi-clari, shock, oxidizer, etc, my spouse and I began developing skin conditions

"OPTION 2 - Drain it and refill is a really good idea......BUT - If you just go back to pucks exclusively you'll be back to the same situation in a year or two."

Undoubtedly. I had elected the pucks over daily applications to minimize surface Cl concentrations that were destroying my solar covers and besides I felt that all that daily fussing shouldn't be necessary. Some of the "experts" want me to use both, but then why use pucks at all

My predecessor for 5 years occasionally simply tossed a puck or two into the skimmer as needed. For about 10 years thereafter I followed suit until it became apparent that the resulting high Cl concentration at the shallow end prematurely destroyed the solar cover and may have caused eventual destruction of parts within the main pump whereupon I began tossing them into the deep end instead (yes I know I'm bad)

Then everything was ok till I decided I liked to open my eyes underwater whereupon I began using also soda ash and that's when my troubles started

Thank you guy most kindly for your input
 

xxreddoor24xx

Active member
Jul 18, 2010
42
Western , MA
dalehileman said:
Running 6 to 7 hours a day it seems to be clearing but very slowly so I expect the present cloudiness will pass after another week or two but meanwhile my electric bill is driving me out of house and home

....yes I am considering the switch to VF to cut the utility

Excuse the dumb question :oops: Will you tell me what "Switching To VF" refers to, what's VF? I have concerns about the increase in my utility usage also Im "a newbie" experiencing cloudy water too, after adding "Calcium Hypoclorite"(powdered Shock) this morning.
Water was clearing up great, using just Sodium Hypochlorite (bleach) for the past 10 days .Atleast now I know the difference between Sodium and Calcium Hypochlorite reactions ( to my water anyways), if not the WHY? .
BTW did you say you used tablets? Cause the HTH 3-in-1 tabs made my water cloudy too, I believe they have Calcium Hypochlorite, and some of mine were on the floor and when they got moved a big puff of cloudineess with them, i would have taken them out if I could have seen the bottom or dared to get in at that time. :blah: ok sorry im ramblin .. BTW Good Luck solving your dilemma..
 

dalehileman

Well-known member
Aug 1, 2009
86
Apple Valley, Ca
"Excuse the dumb question...... what's VF?"

Hi xx, it's the very latest craze, Variable Flow. Can't fathom why it has taken the Pool Establishment this long to realize it, but apparently a pump set to lower flow consumes disproportionally less energy for the same volume moved:

variable-speed-pump-t24660.html

"I have concerns about the increase in my utility usage also Im "a newbie" experiencing cloudy water too, after adding "Calcium Hypoclorite"..........if not the WHY?.... ".

Thank you xx, will look into that

"BTW did you say you used tablets? Cause the HTH 3-in-1 tabs made my water cloudy too......,"

I used nothing but tabs and supermarket algi-clari for a decade during which it was clear most all the time until as I mentioned above I started using soda ash also. Since, it has become increasingly apparent not only is one expected to be rich but he must also be an engineer and a chemist. If we didn't need the exercise I'd fill it with dirt and grow vegetables

"I believe they have Calcium Hypochlorite,......."

My Aqua Chem 3" tabs plus "Help Prevent Corrosion and Staining YES, Reduce Scale Formation YES, Soften Water YES and Kill Bacteria and Control Algae YES. However I can't tell what they contain since that mandatory note is printed in a sort of fading if not invisible ink because they don't went us to know, else we might go purchase somebody else's cheaper product. But I get mine at CostCo

"......, i would have taken them out if I could have seen the bottom.......ok sorry im ramblin .. BTW Good Luck solving your dilemma.."

Why thank you again xx, it has been a pleasure and you're specifically encouraged to ramble

[Incidentally thanks to TFP Admin, an unusually tolerant and helpful bunch, for removing all the unnecessary paragraphing from pool summary below. I really had meant to do it myself but by the time I realized how it stretched out the post looks I had forgotten how. Not only pool maintenance but Internet Board algorithms have been driving me to distraction for years]