Hayward Waterfall Pump dead, can I replace with Whisperflo?

troye

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For the TriStar SP3210EE, I get the following operating point

122 GPM @ 36' of head

Return Head = 27.7'
Suction Head = 8.4'
Head ratio = 3:1

The suction head loss is low enough and head ratio is high enough where cavitation should not be an issue.
Oh then this might be a good option! Tristar no additional warranty used @ $600, or the VS with one year warranty (or two year for additional $39) @ $700.00 OTD
 

JamesW

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Mar 2, 2011
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It might be OK with the existing SPX3220C impeller without cavitating, so probably worth a try.

If you get a SPX3210C impeller and seal, you can replace the impeller if the flow is too much.
 

mas985

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I also added the SP3207EE to the above post. Either one would work fine. One is a bit more flow rate than you have now, the other a bit less.

I wouldn't go much above the SP3210EE because the pipe velocity is almost 12 ft/sec. That is not ideal for the side wall suction ports but it depends on how those were plumbed. Do you know if the pipe right below the cover is also 2"?
 
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troye

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I also added the SP3207EE to the above post. Either one would work fine. One is a bit more flow rate than you have now, the other a bit less.

I wouldn't go much above the SP3210EE because the pipe velocity is almost 12 ft/sec. That is not ideal for the side wall suction ports but it depends on how those were plumbed. Do you know if the pipe right below the cover is also 2"?
Pipe below the cover - which cover? The rock? I believe it is also 2" let me go check
Okay do you mean impeller for 3207 and 3210 paired with the 3220EE?
 

mas985

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The two suction ports for the pump that runs the waterfall. To the left of the waterfall in the picture you posted. You will need to remove the covers to tell which I am sure is not very easy.

Safety regulations dictate that each line should have less than 3'/sec although it is rarely if ever enforced but still a good idea. Hair can get entrapped in the suction port covers.
 

troye

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The two suction ports for the pump that runs the waterfall. To the left of the waterfall in the picture you posted. You will need to remove the covers to tell which I am sure is not very easy.
Right! Not easy :) It is 2". I had all the covers off last year for pool remodel and am pretty sure it is 2"
 

mas985

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So it then comes down to what you feel comfortable with the 1 HP will have twice the flow rate of the safety maximum. But your old pump did too.
 

JamesW

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Mar 2, 2011
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Okay do you mean impeller for 3207 and 3210 paired with the 3220EE?
You can get an SP3207EE or an SP3210EE if they are available.

If the SP3220EE is the only pump available, you can get that and replace the impeller.
 

troye

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Not doubting you guys...well maybe a little :)... but I am not confident the 1HP will do the job
 

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JamesW

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Mar 2, 2011
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If your local code requires a maximum of 6 feet per second for the suction line, then I will have to recommend that you do not exceed 63 gpm for the system which is 6 feet per second for 2" pipe.

For suction, you want to keep the water velocity below 6 ft/sec. For returns, you want to keep the water velocity below 8 ft/sec.

Size.......6 ft/sec......8 ft/sec.

1.5"...........38...............51 gpm

2"..............63...............84 gpm

2.5............90.............119 gpm

3.0".........138.............184 gpm

4”...........234.............313 gpm
 

JamesW

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Mar 2, 2011
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The SP3210EE has a total of 1.85 hp.

The SP3207EE has a total of 1.39 hp.

The flow from the SP3207EE is estimated to be slightly lower than your existing pump.

The flow from the SP3210EE is estimated to be slightly higher than your existing pump.

However, these will exceed 6 feet per second, which means that they are likely to violate local code.
 

troye

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The SP3210EE has a total of 1.85 hp.

The SP3207EE has a total of 1.39 hp.

The flow from the SP3207EE is estimated to be slightly lower than your existing pump.

The flow from the SP3210EE is estimated to be slightly higher than your existing pump.

However, these will exceed 6 feet per second, which means that they are likely to violate local code.
63 GPM I feel will be a trickle. When the pool was installed 20 years ago the Hayward was / is well beyond that number. Maybe the code is not 6GPM or it changed since then, dunno.
I am really leaning towards the used (fully reconditioned) VS pump which should get me where I need to go. Cost is less than new Tristar
 
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mas985

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All of California is under Title 20 which requires 6 fps on the suction plumbing nearest the MDs. However, as I said before, there is no enforcement for the pool owner but still a good idea.
 
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troye

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Thank you both very much, I truly appreciate all of the information and attention you provided. It will definitely help me make an intelligent choice.
 
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troye

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I went with the variable speed but it may be a mistake depending on how the pump reacts to power on/off as I will be using pool automation. I will find out today when I hook it up to test. If it does not work as expected I will exchange for the single speed 1.5 Pentair. Let's see.....

Now I have a question about Bonding! I will post a new thread.

Thanks again gents.
 

troye

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I am in process of replacing a very old Hayward pump used for our waterfall. The pump is located 10' from the water.
The ground / green wire was connected to the ground and the bonding terminal, it has been wired this way for almost 20 years.

Is this setup okay or do I need to properly bond it as I am installing a replacement pool pump.

I have done little research but did find if the pool pump is double insulated it does not need to be bonded?

If I do need to bond it may I ask....how? The main pool pump and one other used for the slide ARE bonded are located about 80' from this pump so it is not possible to tie anything back to there.


Thank you!!
 
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mas985

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By code, the WF pump should be bonded to same bonding as the pool area and equipment. Much like the suction water velocity, these rules are put in place for safety. Bonding the pump to itself does absolutely nothing. The bonding lug on a pump motor is already connected to the grounding lug so it is redundant.

However, one could argue that if the WF pump is grounded and the pool area is bonded to the main pump which is grounded, by connectivity, the WF will always be at the same potential as the bond and house ground and as long as nothing goes wrong with the grounding wire or bond wire, there should be a minimal risk of shock. But this is not an ideal situation because there could be scenarios where something goes wrong and poses a risk.

80' is a long distance but it shouldn't be that difficult to run a copper wire from a known bonding point to that pump. You don't need to bond all the way back to the main pump if there is a closer point. All the concrete rebar, metal railings, and any other metal should have been bonded together with the equipment. So there might be another point to bond to that is closer to the WF pump.

Are there any metal objects near the pump installation?

Can you take a few pictures of the area around the WF pump?