Hayward Waterfall Pump dead, can I replace with Whisperflo?

troye

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I think you are right on the pump model as total HP is 1.88. The pump is dead. Before it died it did not sound like gravel it was a very loud whine / bearings maybe?
When it ran normally it sounded just fine.
Cavitation - could I throw a Jandy / flow valve on their and throttle it if needed?

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Suction pool to pump is 10'; 90's I would guess about 4 to 5 Inside the pool it looks like there are two suctions probably tied together to one pipe and then to pump maybe? (as soon as I get a camera / phone I will take a pic or two)
Pump to Waterfall is approx 40', 90's I would guess about 6 90's? I can see three.
 

JamesW

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Mar 2, 2011
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Suction pool to pump is 10'; 90's I would guess about 4 to 5 Inside the pool it looks like there are two suctions probably tied together to one pipe and then to pump maybe?
Because the line is short, your risk of cavitating is reduced.

However, at some point, you will begin to cavitate.

It's hard to estimate exactly.

I think that a 2 hp full rated pump could begin to cavitate.

You can put a valve on the return side to reduce the flow if it begins to cavitate.

You could use am intelliflo vs, which will allow you to dial in the flow to where you like up to the point when it begins to cavitate.
 

troye

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Because the line is short, your risk of cavitating is reduced.

However, at some point, you will begin to cavitate.

It's hard to estimate exactly.

I think that a 2 hp full rated pump could begin to cavitate.

You can put a valve on the return side to reduce the flow if it begins to cavitate.

You could use am intelliflo vs, which will allow you to dial in the flow to where you like up to the point when it begins to cavitate.
AFP -120 Flow rate is so much lower than the existing Northstar?
 

mas985

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I think you are right on the pump model as total HP is 1.88. The pump is dead. Before it died it did not sound like gravel it was a very loud whine / bearings maybe?
When it ran normally it sounded just fine.
Cavitation - could I throw a Jandy / flow valve on their and throttle it if needed?

Lines
Suction pool to pump is 10'; 90's I would guess about 4 to 5 Inside the pool it looks like there are two suctions probably tied together to one pipe and then to pump maybe? (as soon as I get a camera / phone I will take a pic or two)
Pump to Waterfall is approx 40', 90's I would guess about 6 90's? I can see three.
So with a plumbing curve of

Head (ft) = 0.0017 * GPM^2 + 10

and assuming a SP4010x15, it would have delivered about 110 GPM. The AF-180, would produce about 87 GPM, a 20% reduction. The AF-120 would be even worse.

The WFE-4 Whisperflo would produce about the same as the Northstar.
 

JamesW

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Mar 2, 2011
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If the NorthStar was not cavitating, then an equivalent pump will probably be ok.

You might be able to go with one of the available pumps and use a valve if it cavitates.
 

troye

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Pump Rock Pictures. Rock to the left / by pineapple tree is where the pump resides
 

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troye

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If the NorthStar was not cavitating, then an equivalent pump will probably be ok.

You might be able to go with one of the available pumps and use a valve if it cavitates.
Awesome.
Northstar was working great for the past almost 20 years, constant water flow. Picture is before waterfall was re-worked, but the flow remains the same with the larger Basin
 

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troye

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Here is the slide/waterfall. Whisperflow 1.5HP, distance from pump to top of slide is 100'
 

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troye

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Here is a good snap of the suction for waterfall
 

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troye

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What are the model numbers for the pumps you are considering?
Whisperflow is single speed, not sure of exact model (waiting for confirmation). Maybe WF or WFE
Hayward Tri Star SP3220EE 2.0HP
 

JamesW

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Mar 2, 2011
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Hayward Tri Star SP3220EE 2.0HP
That will do about 148 gpm on your system.

If we estimate the total equivalent length of the suction as 55 ft, the head loss at 148 gpm is about 20 feet.

The pressure at the eye of the impeller will be lower and maybe within range of cavitation.

1631910095259.png
 
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JamesW

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Mar 2, 2011
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The SPX3207C or the SPX3210C impeller will get you close to the amount of flow you have had.
1631911219425.png
1631911485490.png
 

mas985

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For the TriStar SP3210EE, I get the following operating point

122 GPM @ 36' of head

Return Head = 27.7'
Suction Head = 8.4'
Head ratio = 3:1

The suction head loss is low enough and head ratio is high enough where cavitation should not be an issue.

For the TriStar SP3207EE, I get the following operating point

104 GPM @ 28.8' of head

Return Head = 22.8'
Suction Head = 6'
Head ratio = 4:1
 

troye

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I could replace the impeller but really prefer not too once I get whatever installed under the rock. I am thinking whatever pump + valve flow control. The more I think about it the Variable speed is maybe the direction I should go. The local company here has a Variable speed pool motor that is matched to a Pentair Whisperflo or Waterway Champion and with phone software allows you to change the running speeds anywhere from 600rpm-3450 rpm.

Supposedly it is a DC TEFC motor which runs much quieter than its single speed counterparts. This unit won best new product at the New Orleans International Pool Trade show in 2019.

If I spend a couple hundred bux more and go with the VS I could run it slower if wanted. Of course assuming I can connect to it, wifi and all that stuff
 

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