Hayward Pool Heater - Breaker keeps tripping when in use

cchaynes

Well-known member
Jul 6, 2020
51
Wallingford, PA
Ignore the pool equipment in my signature that is our other home.

Pool pump on a dedicated GFCI

Jandy controls

H400FDN heater and it is fed from the same circuit as the pump (relay 1 in jandy control)

Pump runs all day with no issue (1hp generic) if I move the system to spa mode and turn the heater on it fires up, but the breaker trips within 30 mins and then will just keep tripping (breaker feels warm)


I swapped out the igniter and removed and cleaned the flame sensor.

Thoughts on what to check next?
 
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ajw22

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Jul 21, 2013
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What amp breaker? 120V or 240V?

Post a pic of the pump motor data plate.
 

ajw22

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Jul 21, 2013
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Northern NJ
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Your pump pulls 8 amps and the heater less then 1. Should be fine on a 20A breaker.

You need to figure out if it is the pump or heater tripping the breaker due to overload amps or GFCI fault.

Do you have another breaker you can move the heater to?

Do you have a clamp on ammeter to measure the pump current?

You could temporarily replace the GFCI breaker with a regular 20 Amp to test the system.

You could try and replace the breaker in case it got weak.

How old is the breaker?
 

cchaynes

Well-known member
Jul 6, 2020
51
Wallingford, PA
The heater is wired to the same relay in the jandy control, the other circuits are running

Pool light (sent tot a gfci receptacle first)

Landscape lighting
Landscape lighting

So, i think I would need to just run constant power to it form a new circuit

I have a multimeter but not a clamp on meter

I think it is 2-3 years old, but it has tripped about 100 times this week, and it seemed odd to me that it was warming up but is suppose that is what is does.

If I buy another I would prefer to try a different brand like siemens but I assume I would need to change the load center too?
 

ajw22

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Jul 21, 2013
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No reason to use a fancy Siemens breaker. They only come into play if you have a VS pump.

The heater can run on 120V if you change its internal wiring and then you can connect it to the pool light breaker. This is all for test purposes not permanent.

Your pump is the high amp draw so I more suspect it is your pump or breaker then heater.

When a breaker has tripped 100 times it should be replaced. Each trip weakens it.
 
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cchaynes

Well-known member
Jul 6, 2020
51
Wallingford, PA
I am likely going to swap out the pump soon for a VSP, so it might be worth a breaker swap to something that will handle it. Do they make a Square D that would fit?

I might just start by replacing it to rule it out.

I agree that it seems odd for the heater to cause the trip but the pump will run for days. Also odd is that it isn't when the heater draws most current it is much later while it is in continuous operation.
 

ajw22

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Jul 21, 2013
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Remember it could be a GFCI trip that has nothing to do with current draw.

I am not sure about the compatibility of all breakers and panels.
 

ajw22

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I may try to swap the gfci out, can't hurt.

Thanks for the help
I would just get a new 20A GFCI CB and see if it fixes the problem.

If you put in a non-GFCI CB and it works you still don't know if it was a GFCI or over amp trip and yoru next step is putting in a new GFCI CB. Might as well start with a new CB first.
 

eh1159

Member
Sep 15, 2020
6
Austin TX
I would just get a new 20A GFCI CB and see if it fixes the problem.

If you put in a non-GFCI CB and it works you still don't know if it was a GFCI or over amp trip and yoru next step is putting in a new GFCI CB. Might as well start with a new CB first.
The breaker is an Eaton CH Series 2pole 20A GFCI. I’d make sure the panel is also Eaton (Cutler Hammer) and install the breaker made for it.
 

cchaynes

Well-known member
Jul 6, 2020
51
Wallingford, PA
I have switched out the breaker and it is still tripping.

Pump runs ok, just pops when the heater is mid-way through heating. I did notice some steam coming form the port side of the heater that seems new, I really don't know how to tell what is causing this, but it seems that it must be related to the heater, what parts can I check that might be the source?

I have cleaned the flame sensor and swapped igniters. The heater occasionally is going into a startup and shut down loop, but I am not sure if this is related.

Might be time to order a new (non-hayward) heater!
 

ajw22

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Jul 21, 2013
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You put in a non-GFCI 20Amp breaker as a test?
 

cchaynes

Well-known member
Jul 6, 2020
51
Wallingford, PA
You put in a non-GFCI 20Amp breaker as a test?
No, I replaced it with a new GFI

It still tripped, so I have now re-wired from the gfi to the handy and put new wire and conduit, it seems better but it did trip this morning. So I have a new breaker, new wire.

That circuit can only be related to

1) the handy box itself (don't think that is the issue)
2) the pump, not sure how to test or what to look for
3) the heater, as I understand it there are several components that might be the culprit (I have replaced the igniter, and cleaned the flame sensor)

Not sure what to try at this point, perhaps to rewire the heater to a different circuit a 120, and see what I get

any thoughts?
 

ajw22

Gold Supporter
TFP Guide
Jul 21, 2013
21,902
Northern NJ
Pool Size
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Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
I would move the heater to a separate breaker to isolate if the problem is in the pump or the heater. This is one of the challenges when you have multiple devices on one breaker to diagnose which device is causing the trip.
 

cchaynes

Well-known member
Jul 6, 2020
51
Wallingford, PA
I would move the heater to a separate breaker to isolate if the problem is in the pump or the heater. This is one of the challenges when you have multiple devices on one breaker to diagnose which device is causing the trip.
Good morning Allen

I am going to do the heater rewire, but I did speak to Jandy and apparently, the Aqualink transformer can be a piece of the problem and I thought it might be helpful to post their feedback here for you and others.

1) The board revision date may require a different transformer if it is swapped
2) The transformers could possibly get old and then have slightly erratic output, not enough to harm the computer but enough to put noise into the line that would upset the GFI
3) as related to #2, the box itself should not be on the GFI (mine is) and if you refer back to the handy installation instructions, it shows it n its own circuit (or at least not the GFI protected).
4) Thye are aware that the transformers do wear out and that hot areas tend to be harder on them (this house is in the desert and the temps get over 120) I may swap it out the 1-150$ is better than dealing with it failing and potentially taking the board with it.

one other potential issue, though less likely is the relay itself for the pump and heater in my case. To test it, you need to remove the low voltage wires (can leave the load(s) attached and test it, the ohms should be between 300 and 400. I will run this test later.

They felt that the heater could stay where it is, so I may rewire the transformer first and then the heater because I would prefer to know what did it, and if I do both we will never know.

Interested in your thoughts but also wanted to record this as it might be helpful. I may swap out

Cheers
Craig
 

cchaynes

Well-known member
Jul 6, 2020
51
Wallingford, PA
I would move the heater to a separate breaker to isolate if the problem is in the pump or the heater. This is one of the challenges when you have multiple devices on one breaker to diagnose which device is causing the trip.
Finally had time on Friday to run a new 120 circuit dedicated to the heater. So, the pump is on its own gfi and the computer is also separate, everything seems fine now. My guess is that the board / transformer in the heater is throwing signal /noise into the load that was tripping the GFI.

People will undoubtedly find this thread helpful. Just because something works the way it is wired doesn't mean it is right and certainly is not guaranteed to continue working.

Thanks for the support
Craig