Having a pool built and I feel really overwhelmed by all of this

JeanZ1

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Aug 15, 2017
151
Newark/DE
Pool Size
28000
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Chlorine
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CircuPool RJ-60 Plus
You mean I shouldn't even get one built into the decking? Can you link an example of the kind of movable umbrella you're talking about?
Keep in mind the bases for the cantilevered umbrellas are about 3’by 3’. A deal breaker for me with narrow pool deck. Also not so moveable when weighed down with 200+lbs. Even with wheels, while they may be moveable but I wouldn’t call them easily movable.
 
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voidpointer

Well-known member
Oct 8, 2020
122
Prosper, TX
Pool Size
20000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Jandy Aquapure 1400
Sorry to keep jumping to different topics... I really appreciate all the help so far. You all have really helped me get through this project. There's one other thing I want to ask about. I feel like the pool builder is "nickel and diming" me for a few things. There was some additional retaining wall laid out behind the pool where the slide is. Mainly because the PB's previous foreman changed the decking plans a little bit. The wall was needed due to the fact that the dirt around the decking was at a higher level, and without it, there would be wash out.

I personally feel that in the spirit of the original design, there's no "extra wall". The wall was there for the sole purpose of preventing dirt from washing away. That's in the design. The shape and length ended up being different/longer as a result of other changes. Prior to having the wall built, we requested to know what the price would be multiple times. That was probably 4-6 months ago at this point, and we never got a change order. In fact, the owner never even mentioned it after all the time so I figured he was going to leave it alone. He mentioned tonight he still needs to put together a change order for the extra wall. And it's super upsetting. At this point I just want to tell him I'm not paying it. I don't like these "surprise charges". The work has already been done anyway; isn't he doing this backwards?

My wife has had it. She says she's going to talk to an attorney. That feels like a can of worms to me personally, so I just wanted to see how I should approach this. In my mind, I don't feel like I should pay for this stuff. This project is almost at the 1 year mark since excavation began. We've been through 3 different foreman on this project. Stuff constantly gets delayed and without a foreman now, I've basically been running my own project. He's not even paying me to manage my own project!

What do you guys think? Would it be unwise to refuse to pay? Should I let him know I'm getting close to firing him / talking to a lawyer? Not sure what will help or hurt us at this point...
 

ajw22

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TFP Guide
Jul 21, 2013
40,092
Northern NJ
Pool Size
35000
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Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
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Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
I don’t accept change orders for work already done. The work already done was performed under an existing scope of work authorization.

A change order is to authorize ADDITIONAL WORK and payment. In your case no additional work is needed or payment is authorized.

You need to put your foot down as to the meaning of authorized scopes of work and change orders.
 
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voidpointer

Well-known member
Oct 8, 2020
122
Prosper, TX
Pool Size
20000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Jandy Aquapure 1400
Here is what I sent him:

There's only four payments outstanding on my side:

1. Lyon's remaining payment for stage 3 (tile & coping) -- pending completion of my punch list
2. My up front payment for stage 4 (plaster)
3. Lyon's final payment for stage 4 (plaster)
4. Some amount paid to you for the new slide (will be based on price difference I see online, which is a few hundred dollars; I can get you an exact amount I'm willing to pay)

The retaining wall was discussed 5-6 months ago and at the time you never gave us an answer on price, even after months of asking. Your previous foreman made changes to the decking plans and ignored issues with the uneven level of the ground and as such the shape of the wall had to be changed to prevent dirt from washing over the decking. We've been incredibly patient with the delays and a project that is now almost 1 year old. Out of good faith I've tried to be a good customer but I've already budgeted $130k+ for this project and already paid for additional change orders. I'm not going to be paying for anything else at this point. I haven't been unreasonable; I just want my project done as I originally wanted and I haven't asked for anything unreasonable. Also let's not forget that I'm acting as foreman/superintendent for my own project. I'm literally outside managing your subcontractors. You aren't even paying me to do that job.
And I'm offering to pay for the slide out of good faith (since he already bought it and delivered it to my property); I know I don't even have to do that but I'll at least keep my promise there. But I definitely feel like he's taking advantage of my kindness at this point.
 
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poolnoobgrandma

0
Gold Supporter
Sep 15, 2018
849
Seminole, FL
Pool Size
17000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Hayward Aqua Rite Pro (T-15)
Keep in mind the bases for the cantilevered umbrellas are about 3’by 3’. A deal breaker for me with narrow pool deck. Also not so moveable when weighed down with 200+lbs. Even with wheels, while they may be moveable but I wouldn’t call them easily movable.
We love ours. Easy enough to take down for hurricanes and winter time. But they are up all summer long.
 

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voidpointer

Well-known member
Oct 8, 2020
122
Prosper, TX
Pool Size
20000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Jandy Aquapure 1400
Man I'm sure you guys don't care about drama here, but things just took a weird turn tonight. PB owner called me and got real frustrated with me about the open BBB complaint I have against him. They keep trying to resolve the case in their favor, as if it's resolved, but I keep responding to keep the case open, talking about all the issues and stuff that isn't getting resolved. I told him I don't appreciate being spoken to the way he was and he told me to "have some ba**s and man up". I hung up on him. Really????????????? He's blamed me, his subcontractors, and/or his foreman for every issue and delay in this project and takes responsibility for nothing. Holy cow I'm not sure if this guy is going to finish the pool.
 

ajw22

Gold Supporter
TFP Guide
Jul 21, 2013
40,092
Northern NJ
Pool Size
35000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
Man I'm sure you guys don't care about drama here, but things just took a weird turn tonight. PB owner called me and got real frustrated with me about the open BBB complaint I have against him. They keep trying to resolve the case in their favor, as if it's resolved, but I keep responding to keep the case open, talking about all the issues and stuff that isn't getting resolved. I told him I don't appreciate being spoken to the way he was and he told me to "have some ba**s and man up". I hung up on him. Really????????????? He's blamed me, his subcontractors, and/or his foreman for every issue and delay in this project and takes responsibility for nothing. Holy cow I'm not sure if this guy is going to finish the pool.
I hope you are communicating all of this to the BBB and PB in writing.

Any verbal discussions with the PB should be followed up in writing detailing what was discussed.
 

voidpointer

Well-known member
Oct 8, 2020
122
Prosper, TX
Pool Size
20000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Jandy Aquapure 1400
Who would I pay to come out and give a second opinion on the overall construction of my pool? Things like making sure everything is level, no major structural issues with the gunite, decking issues, maybe even plumbing and electrical? Some kind of general architect?
 

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ajw22

Gold Supporter
TFP Guide
Jul 21, 2013
40,092
Northern NJ
Pool Size
35000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
Architects design they don't build. You want a retired builder or an engineer to review your build.
 

voidpointer

Well-known member
Oct 8, 2020
122
Prosper, TX
Pool Size
20000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Jandy Aquapure 1400
What are the yellow parts of these pavers? I was told it was some kind of filler put in holes of the stone, but I'm not sure. Doesn't look like a natural part of the travertine pavers.
1669134667091.png1669134677174.png1669134683883.png
 

Toxophilite

Silver Supporter
Feb 23, 2022
1,105
Dickinson, Texas
Pool Size
15500
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Liquid Chlorine
What are the yellow parts of these pavers? I was told it was some kind of filler put in holes of the stone, but I'm not sure. Doesn't look like a natural part of the travertine pavers.
View attachment 463405View attachment 463406View attachment 463407
Yes, travertine is full of holes, less select (having more and larger holes) are generally used as pavers, and they are filled with an epoxy. The epoxy is supposed to match and be not that noticeable. Mine are a silver/grey to match, and for some, I can spot them but you have to looking for them. Those are way off in color match - should have been used for browns or honey colored travertine.
 
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Toxophilite

Silver Supporter
Feb 23, 2022
1,105
Dickinson, Texas
Pool Size
15500
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Liquid Chlorine
If they are new, I would, as the wrong color epoxy was used. Probably just never switched out on the production line. If it's just a few, the PB will probably not push back to maintain the peace. If whole deck? There's a few in mine off color, kinda light, but overall, it all blends well. I prefer the areas where holes just filled with polymeric instead of the unnatural looking epoxy, but it's what they do.
 

voidpointer

Well-known member
Oct 8, 2020
122
Prosper, TX
Pool Size
20000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Jandy Aquapure 1400
Pretty sure my pool builder doesn't like me anymore. Between the BBB complaint, his refusal to work on my pool, and the fact that I'm already paying an attorney to write him a letter...

I'll try.
 
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Toxophilite

Silver Supporter
Feb 23, 2022
1,105
Dickinson, Texas
Pool Size
15500
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Liquid Chlorine
If you decide to replace some yourself that you just can't live with, removal tools can be fabricated. Mine are sand set, so just two putty knives with flexing ears cut at blade ends. Just drive in opposite sides and it grabs under the base of paver to lift up.
 

ajw22

Gold Supporter
TFP Guide
Jul 21, 2013
40,092
Northern NJ
Pool Size
35000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
If you decide to replace some yourself that you just can't live with, removal tools can be fabricated. Mine are sand set, so just two putty knives with flexing ears cut at blade ends. Just drive in opposite sides and it grabs under the base of paver to lift up.

Before you go removing paver stones I would try and find an epoxy color that works with your stones. Then use a Dremel tool to grind out the wrong color epoxy and fill the hole with a better color. It may be less work and expense then replacing many stones.

Worst case it does not work well and you end up replacing the stones anyway. It is worth a try.
 
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