I would like to get your opinion on what the Civil Engineer had to say.
gunite
- Thread starter TonyTonyTony
- Start date
TonyX3,
It seems like you are hearing what you want to hear and dismissing what you don't. The pool has major structural damage and is moving/settling for some unknown reason. Epoxy is a quick fix but it isn't going to hold a structurally compromised pool shell together for very long.
You've gotten some good advice thus far and I suggest you listen to it. There is no quick/inexpensive fix for this pool and any attempt will place the new homeowner in a dismal position later on.
It seems like you are hearing what you want to hear and dismissing what you don't. The pool has major structural damage and is moving/settling for some unknown reason. Epoxy is a quick fix but it isn't going to hold a structurally compromised pool shell together for very long.
You've gotten some good advice thus far and I suggest you listen to it. There is no quick/inexpensive fix for this pool and any attempt will place the new homeowner in a dismal position later on.
The Civil Engineer never returned my email, so the other day I followed up with a phone call to him. As it turned out he hadn’t seen the email. He was very nice and informative. He said, if it was a structural problem, it would have shown up before the pool was 2 years old. He said a 37 year old pool has settled all its going to settle. He said it cracked because of age not structure. He said it cracked and then it must have plenty of steel that picked up the weight. He said it cracked because of the weight differential. From the shallow end to the deep end there is a a constant slope. After the slope, there’s a significant drop to the deep end. This is where the cracks are. He said the weight of 10 feet of water was astronomical, and there was significantly more weight on the deep end then then the shallow end, and it was this change in weight that caused the pool to crack along the lines where the deepest end started. He said it could be fixed with 6000 psi epoxy. He said his firm has used that to even hold bridges up. He said with that epoxy, it would last another 37 years. He said. I could cut out the crack approximately eight inches on both sides of the crack, and two inches deep, to make a trough, and fill the trough up with the epoxy. He said this would make the surface smooth, and no one would stub their toe. But since it’s so deep, at the location of the crack, I think there’s not much chance of stubbing you toe, and just to fill the cracks up with epoxy would be okay, even if the bottom is a little rough. What do you think?
Without him being there to see it and a soil test that's an opinion. Yes epoxy is strong and it's used for many repairs. But 37 year old concrete is strong it gets better with age. Things can keep settling it may not be done. I have seen a pool shift from just a neighbor house being built and diverting underground water veins. My overall opinion is if I was possibly buying the house and knew the repair was done as a DIY I wouldnt trust it. Some people might overlook it amd just see a pool and not overthink it. Whatever you do just disclose the info to the buyer. With pics amd disclosure you have protection from a lawsuit down the road
If the weight weight of the water cracked the pool, then that's a structural defect. The shell couldn't support the weight probably due to inadequate gunite thickness and/or lack of steel reinforcing.
Supply house has it. Have you ever worked with epoxy? For this type of repair you need lots of manpower and mixing experience. You have minutes to mix and get the material it place. Not very DIY friendly
Could you recommend a supply house where I could purchase 6000 psi epoxy. Also, could the epoxy be mixed in small batches, since as you say it has a short open time, and cut down on the needed manpower? The engineer said it was very liquid-ity. I could see myself slowly pouring it into the cracks. Do you see a problem with this?
epoxy is very hard to work with as a first timer. The supply house I use that carries it wont sell it to you, have to be a contractor. not something you want to ship, gotta do some looking around local to you. my limited experience is a one shot pour, I cant really comment or direct you on an epoxy repair. In my opinion this pool needs to be cored and soil sampled and after figuring out whats wrong with the engineer the pool would be stapled if that was appropriate and its salvageable
Contacted a cement contractor, but after learning it was a pool, he never returned any of my inquiries. Unfortunately, I can't snap my fingers and have qualified people for what you say I need. I am going to have to to the best I can.
I wouldn't do anything recommended by a "pro" over the phone. Unless you have paid him for his services and he's willing to sign his name onto it as some sort of assurance to buyers, you have no idea what all is entailed. He may have left out a step in the conversation.
This sounds like a disaster in the making...getting worse!
This sounds like a disaster in the making...getting worse!
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Jimmythegreek, even though you state your supplier would not sell to me, could you post a link to their webpage. I would like to see what types of epoxy would be available, even though I could not purchase from them.
Why don’t u find few gunite pool contractors in ur area and get estimates. You are talking to a lot of people who don’t build gunite pools. My buddy is a commercial excavator and does commercial and residential footers and foundations and when I did my pool he said ya this is totally different.
talk to pool places that build gunite pools. Not fiberglass pools. Not vinyl pools.
those cracks look nasty though. My builder just repaired a gunite sheet with staples and other material.It looked like a pretty involved process.
talk to pool places that build gunite pools. Not fiberglass pools. Not vinyl pools.
those cracks look nasty though. My builder just repaired a gunite sheet with staples and other material.It looked like a pretty involved process.
They dont have a website. Imperial pool supply in Fairfield NJ. You order what you want its not a stocked item. If I needed it that day Brooklyn NY has a commercial Mason supply. Anything you want info on is all over the internet. It's not pool stuff you wont find it searching pool. Its concrete repair it doeant know what type of concrete its repairing ie footing, bridge, pool etc
About 2 weeks ago I contacted this company to ask about their "pool patch". The CEO wrote back and I had several email exchanges with him.
Home - CGM Building Products
cgmbuildingproducts.com
The data sheet states it cures to 6400 psi in 28 days. I didn’t want to wait 28 days to refill the pool, and wrote to ask if they had product that cured faster.
He said they sold the same product at Leslie's Pools. It's manufactured by the same company, but sold at Leslie's under their brand.
Leslie's Patch-It All Purpose Waterproof Cement, 10 Lbs. | Leslie's Pool Supplies
Great for small repairs! Waterproof cement for repairing tile, pool plaster or chipped cement. Twice the strength and three times the bonding power of concrete.
www.lesliespool.com
Thus far, this is all I have been able to find.
I have written to an adhesives manufacturer, but have not heard back from them
I have not made any progress in my pool repair. A concrete repair company has looked at it as well as several pool companies. I am basically being told the pool can't be repaired, that it structurally has no support, that there is no rebar to support the weight of the concrete. I was curious what was going on in, and underneath, the concrete. So, I took a sledge hammer and took out a big section where the crack was the worse. The concrete is about 6in thick, and there is rebar in there, but it seems the rebar has rusted into pieces. I was able to pull out approximately 1 foot pieces. The ground underneath the concrete was very wet, almost standing water. A week ago I pressure washed it, so that repair people could get a good look at the problem, and tried to get all the debris out of the cracks. I don't believe all the water came from that, because it also looks as if the dirt has washed away. The concrete is not sitting on dirt, but there is about a 3-4 inch gap between the dirt and the concrete, so basically the concrete is sitting on nothing.
Six years ago, there was two coats of plaster on the pool. I could tell there were two coats, because it was different colors, and I am assuming it was put on at different times. Both plaster coats started to pull away from the wall of the pool, and the longer it went on, the wider the gap between the plaster and the wall widened. I was told by a pool company to take the plaster off and paint the pool with epoxy paint, which is what I did. I am certain when the plaster was taken off, there were no cracks in the pool, if there had of been I would not have ignored them. I believe the current problem results from having the plaster taken off and painted 6 years ago.
Any ideas how to repair it now would be appreciated. The pool is 37 years old.
Six years ago, there was two coats of plaster on the pool. I could tell there were two coats, because it was different colors, and I am assuming it was put on at different times. Both plaster coats started to pull away from the wall of the pool, and the longer it went on, the wider the gap between the plaster and the wall widened. I was told by a pool company to take the plaster off and paint the pool with epoxy paint, which is what I did. I am certain when the plaster was taken off, there were no cracks in the pool, if there had of been I would not have ignored them. I believe the current problem results from having the plaster taken off and painted 6 years ago.
Any ideas how to repair it now would be appreciated. The pool is 37 years old.
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Hammer out the floor and dig until you hit solid ground. Backfill with gravel and compact very well. Add new rebar and tie it into the existing shell and rebar - be sure to have this engineered and site inspected. Shoot 10-12" of shotcrete then replaster the pool.
It might actually be cheaper to demo the entire thing and start fresh... you'd end up with a better product too
It might actually be cheaper to demo the entire thing and start fresh... you'd end up with a better product too
The pool is 18 x 36, and on the shallow end it's over 4 feet, and the deep end is over 10 feet, and it is 37 years old. I have been told to build a smaller pool inside it, or fill it in. I was also told that it would cost $80,000 to build new. I hate to fill in an $80,000 pool. The house is going to be for sale soon. I wanted to get the pool in shape prior to putting the house up for sale. Now it seems it's going to cost more to fix, than I want to spend on a house that I am going to sell, so I am thinking I will try and sell as is.
Do you think taking the plaster out six years ago has caused this problem? What would cause the dirt under the concrete to wash away? What would cause rebar to rust and break into piece?
It is a very nice looking pool and adds a lot to the backyard.
Do you think taking the plaster out six years ago has caused this problem? What would cause the dirt under the concrete to wash away? What would cause rebar to rust and break into piece?
It is a very nice looking pool and adds a lot to the backyard.
