Going to convert to SWG - Need some assistance.

[edif30]

Hi all!

Before my journey and education that has transpired in this post WOW What a learning experience... so far.... I had been hearing about a SWG for the last few years and I was always on the fence about making the decision. Since I am now at least armed minimally with knowledge from this forum and I feel like I can have control over my pool I definitely considered a SWG more. Over the past few days it has become even more clear to me that keeping up with proper chlorine levels and being attentive to it are really what makes or breaks a pool season. With that in mind, I have 4 kids (all in sports/clubs/etc), 3 pets, lots of things on the calendar, and trust me... we are very busy. Simply needing to stay on top of the pool constantly isn't threatening by any means but something that I can most certainly see being an issue. I will most certainly forget one day and thats when trouble can start. Theres vacations, holidays, you name it. Something will get in the way one way or another. I'd rather spend the money for the worry free aspect. That also doesn't mean I get to be lazy either. I don't mind occasional checks to ensure everything is in line. I also am a big advocate of automation. So... I think I've made the decision to convert to SWG.

Here is my current situation:

12k Gallon Pool Vinyl | Hayward Sand Filter | Hayward 1.5 HP pump| Hayward Chlorinator (getting rid of this because I am not using pucks anymore (see post above)).
All equipment is right next to the pool outside and will be in sun most of the day
20amp breaker - I have a 40amp switch out there that is controlled via zwave and I have enough screws on it to add some more to the overall load. My pump uses ~715 watts. I have plenty left to use.


Needs:

Fully automated - if possible. If there are nice to haves that give you bells and whistles then I am all for it. My entire home is nearly automated and I'd absolutely love to keep with this theme. (If not possible for my situation, no worry)
Granular control. Meaning if I can dial it in to a precise value, great. I really don't want to deal with estimates and large swings.
Based on some reading, is it true I should get a SWG that can do 30k gal to reduce the load on the system? Either way I am looking at 15 or 30k capacity.
I'm super handy so installation is not an issue regardless of complexity.
SWG will be in sun. I can always try to figure something out if thats an issue.
Budget - I realize this is gonna cost up front. So for now, lets assume I have a budget of $2500 for EVERYTHING including down to the little extras I might need along the way.

I think that is it.

I would love the assistance of this great forum.

 

[Divin Dave]

Hi edif,
I personally think your decision to convert is a wise one and for ALL the same reasons you noted. We get busy, we forget, we get lazy, all the issues these things cause will be resolved a SWG.

Go with the 30K (or 40), you'll be glad you did.

I'm not a tech or automation guy so someone else will chime in on that. And Im sure you know this, but whatever SWG brand you decide on, get the same brand of automated controller.

And Im pretty sure your budget is close to sufficient.

There will be a bit of a trial and error to begin with, to determine what the output of the SWG will need to be during the seasons, but its pretty easy to get that figured out

.

 

[mguzzy]

...

Needs:

Fully automated - if possible. If there are nice to haves that give you bells and whistles then I am all for it. My entire home is nearly automated and I'd absolutely love to keep with this theme. (If not possible for my situation, no worry)
Granular control. Meaning if I can dial it in to a precise value, great. I really don't want to deal with estimates and large swings.
Based on some reading, is it true I should get a SWG that can do 30k gal to reduce the load on the system? Either way I am looking at 15 or 30k capacity.
I'm super handy so installation is not an issue regardless of complexity.
SWG will be in sun. I can always try to figure something out if thats an issue.
Budget - I realize this is gonna cost up front. So for now, lets assume I have a budget of $2500 for EVERYTHING including down to the little extras I might need along the way.

I think that is it.

I would love the assistance of this great forum.

Perfect. I added a SWG to my set up years ago.. Some stuff has changed, some is the same. It looks like you have the basics down. If you have automation on your pool already I would lean toward the same system. It doesn't look like you have any so getting a system with automation may be a consideration. If all you need is a SWG tied to your existing pool equip, you may be able to get away with installing a SWG only, and tie it into your existing timer equipment. The question is what are you using to turn your pool pump on and off? a simple Intermatic timer or something more? Post some pics of your equipment panel and the local gurus will be able to give you specific advice.

As far as "Granular/fully automated control"... it depends how you define that. An SWG will continuously produce CL while its on and there is water flow through the system. It won't check for external changes to the condition of the water. You still have to do that. Test at least once a week to monitor the pool chem and adjust the SWG output for conditions such as temp, batherload, rain... etc. Its not that hard.. just a turn of the knob really. But it is NOT a set it and forget it kind of system. Just want to make sure you know that.

I installed mine, ala DIY.. so if you understand basic plumbing and electrical.. you should have no problems. $2500 seems like a generous budget.

The thing that surprised me the most about switching to a SWG is how much more stable my pool chem became. Since CL is added to the pool slowly and continuously it was easier to monitor the other chem levels and tweak them. The time that I saved with just that more than paid for itself in the first year, IMHO. Becuase the actuall cost of installing a SWG versus not buying CL doesn't really break even for 5 years or so.

 

[Newdude]

I have the easiest and cheapest automation. Swg and VS pump running 24/7 at low rpms. Pool stays topped off with FC all the time. Uses about $20 a month in electric. Once a week i doublecheck to make sure its within range. Most of those checks come back perfect. I have to adjust mine from the equipment pad instead of from my cellphone. Its still just a click or too. To me that convenience isnt worth the money

The time that I saved with just that more than paid for itself in the first year, IMHO. Becuase the actuall cost of installing a SWG versus not buying CL doesn't really break even for 5 years or so.

This is the key. Its not only the time saved, but the energy i dont have after being a teenager taxi and making it to all of their activities. Then what little time and energy i get leftover is already spent maintaining the house and yard. @edif30 is clearly in my stage of life also. The costs do break even over the life of the swg. BUT i would pay $1000 a year or maybe even more for the convienece of not going to more stores and lugging more things into the house. My FC is always in my backyard and always producing.

 

[wireform]

Hi all!

Before my journey and education that has transpired in this post WOW What a learning experience... so far.... I had been hearing about a SWG for the last few years and I was always on the fence about making the decision. Since I am now at least armed minimally with knowledge from this forum and I feel like I can have control over my pool I definitely considered a SWG more. Over the past few days it has become even more clear to me that keeping up with proper chlorine levels and being attentive to it are really what makes or breaks a pool season. With that in mind, I have 4 kids (all in sports/clubs/etc), 3 pets, lots of things on the calendar, and trust me... we are very busy. Simply needing to stay on top of the pool constantly isn't threatening by any means but something that I can most certainly see being an issue. I will most certainly forget one day and thats when trouble can start. Theres vacations, holidays, you name it. Something will get in the way one way or another. I'd rather spend the money for the worry free aspect. That also doesn't mean I get to be lazy either. I don't mind occasional checks to ensure everything is in line. I also am a big advocate of automation. So... I think I've made the decision to convert to SWG.

Here is my current situation:

12k Gallon Pool Vinyl | Hayward Sand Filter | Hayward 1.5 HP pump| Hayward Chlorinator (getting rid of this because I am not using pucks anymore (see post above)).
All equipment is right next to the pool outside and will be in sun most of the day
20amp breaker - I have a 40amp switch out there that is controlled via zwave and I have enough screws on it to add some more to the overall load. My pump uses ~715 watts. I have plenty left to use.


Needs:

Fully automated - if possible. If there are nice to haves that give you bells and whistles then I am all for it. My entire home is nearly automated and I'd absolutely love to keep with this theme. (If not possible for my situation, no worry)
Granular control. Meaning if I can dial it in to a precise value, great. I really don't want to deal with estimates and large swings.
Based on some reading, is it true I should get a SWG that can do 30k gal to reduce the load on the system? Either way I am looking at 15 or 30k capacity.
I'm super handy so installation is not an issue regardless of complexity.
SWG will be in sun. I can always try to figure something out if thats an issue.
Budget - I realize this is gonna cost up front. So for now, lets assume I have a budget of $2500 for EVERYTHING including down to the little extras I might need along the way.

I think that is it.

I would love the assistance of this great forum.

I would say being that you are in NJ it wouldn't make sense to do this now. You're going to be closing it very soon. Use the time the pool is closed to do all the reading and research and even quotes if possible. Have it installed in the early spring when you'll be able to play with it and be ready fo the season. Best of luck.

 

[wireform]

I installed several this past season. Non were automated but as it has been said earlier putting it on a timer and running it with a ratio of pump time to percent output you will fine tune easily. Check it once a week and won't take more then 5 minutes of your time. Automation is nice but it's not everything. It still won't know pool parties and bather loads and will need to be tweaked occasionally anyway.

 

[edif30]

Perfect. I added a SWG to my set up years ago.. Some stuff has changed, some is the same. It looks like you have the basics down. If you have automation on your pool already I would lean toward the same system. It doesn't look like you have any so getting a system with automation may be a consideration. If all you need is a SWG tied to your existing pool equip, you may be able to get away with installing a SWG only, and tie it into your existing timer equipment. The question is what are you using to turn your pool pump on and off? a simple Intermatic timer or something more? Post some pics of your equipment panel and the local gurus will be able to give you specific advice.

As far as "Granular/fully automated control"... it depends how you define that. An SWG will continuously produce CL while its on and there is water flow through the system. It won't check for external changes to the condition of the water. You still have to do that. Test at least once a week to monitor the pool chem and adjust the SWG output for conditions such as temp, batherload, rain... etc. Its not that hard.. just a turn of the knob really. But it is NOT a set it and forget it kind of system. Just want to make sure you know that.

I installed mine, ala DIY.. so if you understand basic plumbing and electrical.. you should have no problems. $2500 seems like a generous budget.

The thing that surprised me the most about switching to a SWG is how much more stable my pool chem became. Since CL is added to the pool slowly and continuously it was easier to monitor the other chem levels and tweak them. The time that I saved with just that more than paid for itself in the first year, IMHO. Becuase the actuall cost of installing a SWG versus not buying CL doesn't really break even for 5 years or so.

My signature has my inventory of equipment. I believe all I would need to do is get the SWG. But not 100% sure. Would need someone who has had experience with what I have or near it to chime in. The controller/timer I use is a zwave 40amp switch. It ties into my smart home system and I can set it to go on or off whenever I want. And from anywhere if I wanted. So setting a schedule and or doing manual switches is a no brainer.

As far as granularity I was referring to how you can dial in the increases and decreases. I read on here that some models have like 1%, 5%, and 10% adjustments. I'd want the most precise as I can get.

 

[edif30]

I would say being that you are in NJ it wouldn't make sense to do this now. You're going to be closing it very soon. Use the time the pool is closed to do all the reading and research and even quotes if possible. Have it installed in the early spring when you'll be able to play with it and be ready fo the season. Best of luck.

Yea I already closed the pool. I am just beginning my research in prep for next year.

 

[edif30]

Hi edif,
I personally think your decision to convert is a wise one and for ALL the same reasons you noted. We get busy, we forget, we get lazy, all the issues these things cause will be resolved a SWG.

Go with the 30K (or 40), you'll be glad you did.

I'm not a tech or automation guy so someone else will chime in on that. And Im sure you know this, but whatever SWG brand you decide on, get the same brand of automated controller.

And Im pretty sure your budget is close to sufficient.

There will be a bit of a trial and error to begin with, to determine what the output of the SWG will need to be during the seasons, but its pretty easy to get that figured out

.

Thanks! I spoke to a few people and mentioned the thought of going SWG and their first reaction is "for an above ground pool it's going to damage your pool with all the metal on it". And I immediately start doubting things. Is this truly the case? Lots of reading on here I've not once read someone complain and or have a concern about corrosion with a SWG. But maybe I didn't see it?

 

[Newdude]

As far as granularity I was referring to how you can dial in the increases and decreases. I read on here that some models have like 1%, 5%, and 10% adjustments. I'd want the most precise as I can get

With my pentair i can select by 2% up to 10%. After that it is 20/40/60/80/100. It would have to be cold by you to ever need to use a run time under 20%.
I run 24/7 so it was nice to be able to select 4% once i put the cover on to stop the leaves and wait for the water temp to be cold enough to finish closing. I could have just as easily ran my SWG at 100% for an hour and had the same amout of FC produced.

 

[setsailsoon]

ED,

I did exactly what you are considering but without the z-wave equipment you have. I did the automation several years ago with Jandy then recently replaced it with Pentair after a lightning strike. About 6 months ago I upgraded from liquid chlorine to swg. Here are some things to consider::

• Given your location, I would agree with wireform. There's no hurry so you can plan out, purchase and install around sales of equipment etc. Sale prices can save you a lot.
• Automation isn't required and this is very much a personal preference. I think it's worth every penny but I'd do swg even if automation is not in the plan
• Automation equipment has a huge range in cost depending mostly on how many extra channels you want beyond normal pool control. For example a basic 4 relay pentair easy touch that uses existing breakers for power is about $500 online. An 8 relay state of the art Pentair Intellicenter with power distribution incorporated is about $2000. It's important to think about your future needs but I would expect for an AG pool 4 relays would be plenty.
• Search all the brands and look at capability vs cost. Jandy cuts their warranty to zero for online and/or DIY installed equipment. Hayward and Pentair reduce it but do not eliminate it. I was OK with limited since I've found electronics last forever or 'till a lightning strike if they work for 10 days.
• SWG installation is easy peasy. If you automate there are benefits to using the same brand swg but I found these to be pretty limited and not worth giving up any warranty. SWG cells can be a little finicky and sometimes seem to fail early due to problems with the catalytic coatings in the cell. Several 3rd party suppliers give much better warranty, no reduction for DIY, and had lower $/lb chlorine production when I looked. I ended up using Circupool for this reason.
• Some jurisdictions require building permits for this kind of project. Most also allow owner to do the work but it's a good idea to check before you get in trouble. They can be pretty punitive with fines.
• Automation and SWG will require work with 120 v and/or 240v electric service. If you're not thoroughly experienced and knowledgeable of local electrical codes you are risking serious injury or death so you should get the help of an electrician. You can still save a bundle doing it this way.
• I found it isn't so critical to have control over % power and the run time of your chlorine cell. % power control requires use of the automation branded equipment. Run time is just a schedule determined function that can be controlled by any brand automation. I adjusted % power to a level that allows me to fine-tune FC level by adjusting run time. % power adjustments should be few and far between... maybe annually.
• Definitely use the FTP recommendation to size the swg at 2x the rating or more. I run at 40% for 5-7 hrs per day.
• There seems to be some conflicting information on the use of the flow switch that is a part of SWG. It is intended to prevent the SWG from powering when there is limited or no flow to prevent build up of explosive gases. This is a single point of failure for a potentially catastrophic event so I strongly recommend you make sure the SWG is powered from the same source as the pump. Looks like this would be the way you'd do it since you're using a single 20 amp supply.
• Based on your description you may be exceeding the 20 amp supply if you're operating at 110 v especially considering the starting load. Be sure to double-check this.

I hope this helps.

Chris

*** updated to more fully explain % power and run time control ***

 

[mguzzy]

Thanks! I spoke to a few people and mentioned the thought of going SWG and their first reaction is "for an above ground pool it's going to damage your pool with all the metal on it". And I immediately start doubting things. Is this truly the case? Lots of reading on here I've not once read someone complain and or have a concern about corrosion with a SWG. But maybe I didn't see it?

My brother ran a SWG on his ABG... and loved it. .. Also as to the "dialing it in" concept.. an SWG is not a set it and forget it kind of thing.. you will still need to tweak it based on the on your ever changing conditions of your pool, like bather load, temperature, water exchange (I see you are in NJ where it rains during the pool season).. that sort of stuff.. but an SWG allows you to tweak the CL production with just a turn of the knob... But when things are stable.. it sure feels like "set it and forget it" so nice.

 

[Fuldo]

I don't see automated SWG control as much benefit unless you have an automated system that reports water conditions. Changing the rate of chlorine generation without knowing FC levels isn't reasonable and the vast majority of people physically test their water so changes to SWG output or pump run time could be done on-site at time of testing. In your case you already have remote control of your pump, you could tie the SWG power into the same power switch used for the pump and adjust run times instead of SWG output (% runtime) to adjust chlorine output.

 

[tenderfoot]

I have SWG and definitely recommend it for an in-ground pool. Dunno about above ground.

I think $2500 is way more than sufficient budget for adding an SWG although I don't know what the labor costs could be if you have someone do the work. If you are handy, I think this is not difficult, but you do have to be comfortable working with electrical systems.

With respect to the SWG helping you have more time: Yes, I think it certainly will. BUT it doesn't grant you a free pass: you will still need to balance the PH manually. In my case PH balancing has to be done 2 or 3 times per week.

Oh, and lastly: in the winter months (below 55F) the SWG does not do anything, so you have to go back to manually adding chlorine.

 

[dradam]

Attached is an article I wrote about converting to a SWCG pool automation a few years ago. I hope it is helpful. My SWCG is controlled by Easy touch automation system and Intellichem controls PH and the running of the swcg. The sysrem is not perfect, but I enjoyed installing it and has worked nicely for me. Best wishes.