Frustrated while SLAMing

TazJMT

Well-known member
Jun 19, 2014
96
Spotswood, NJ
Several points, but all related:

So, I am a bit frustrated with the SLAM process. Let me clarify I am grateful that I was taught this, but anytime I am doing it (like right now), I end up with a million questions, most stemming from when I am done. Now I understand and have read the 3 criteria fore when I am done, so I know that.

1)My most frustrating point is when I have passed the overnight FC loss test. The reason for this is normally, I will not get to the pool to test it during a SLAM until the sun has been up for 2 hours. Today, I happen to randomly wake up early so I got it just as the sun was coming up (and lost 2.0, so not quite done), but normally, if I had checked that 2 hours later in 2 hours of sun, I would have assumed I was done because I would have thought I lost 1 or less overnight and the sun got the rest. Tomorrow, when I hopefully wake up a little later, how in the world will I know when it was during the non-sun hours?

2)In the same idea, I keep losing about 2 overnight and am SLAMing to 20FC-is it just that 20 is too hard to hold?

3) We are trying to get rid of what we see in the picture below, I am SLAMing for what a few here have identified as dead algae on the bottom of my pool (poofs away when I try to touch it and only shows up only shows up in the vinyl crevices when the pump is running). We had had this stuff for over 2 years now (but I only learned to SLAM this year). I mean have a i really had algae for 2 years and it was "just kept at bay" by my regular chlorination? When I am finally rid of the issue according to SLAM rules, how do I get this stuff out of the pool? I assume the second I touch it with the vacuum, it disintegrates before most of it gets sucked up, so it will just swirl and get caught in the crevices again. Or do I brush it and let it swirl so the skimmer gets it? Picture below to show what it is as it sits now

4) my curiosity got the best of me and i had a pool store check for phosphates. They said I had a little over 300. I have 1/2 a bottle of PhosFree sitting around from last year. I know there are different opinions on phosphates Here. Will PhosFree mess up the SLAM if I add it now?

5) finally, what about algaecide? i use this one for maintenance, but i dont see that mentioned here much Rx Clear® Swimming Pool Algaecide 60 Plus - 1 qt. - PoolSupplies.com

Sorry so long, just seems all related and want to learn

John
 

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setsailsoon

LifeTime Supporter
TFP Guide
Oct 25, 2015
1,586
Stuart/FL
Several points, but all related:

So, I am a bit frustrated with the SLAM process. Let me clarify I am grateful that I was taught this, but anytime I am doing it (like right now), I end up with a million questions, most stemming from when I am done. Now I understand and have read the 3 criteria fore when I am done, so I know that.

1)My most frustrating point is when I have passed the overnight FC loss test. The reason for this is normally, I will not get to the pool to test it during a SLAM until the sun has been up for 2 hours. Today, I happen to randomly wake up early so I got it just as the sun was coming up (and lost 2.0, so not quite done), but normally, if I had checked that 2 hours later in 2 hours of sun, I would have assumed I was done because I would have thought I lost 1 or less overnight and the sun got the rest. Tomorrow, when I hopefully wake up a little later, how in the world will I know when it was during the non-sun hours?

2)In the same idea, I keep losing about 2 overnight and am SLAMing to 20FC-is it just that 20 is too hard to hold?

3) We are trying to get rid of what we see in the picture below, I am SLAMing for what a few here have identified as dead algae on the bottom of my pool (poofs away when I try to touch it and only shows up only shows up in the vinyl crevices when the pump is running). We had had this stuff for over 2 years now (but I only learned to SLAM this year). I mean have a i really had algae for 2 years and it was "just kept at bay" by my regular chlorination? When I am finally rid of the issue according to SLAM rules, how do I get this stuff out of the pool? I assume the second I touch it with the vacuum, it disintegrates before most of it gets sucked up, so it will just swirl and get caught in the crevices again. Or do I brush it and let it swirl so the skimmer gets it? Picture below to show what it is as it sits now

4) my curiosity got the best of me and i had a pool store check for phosphates. They said I had a little over 300. I have 1/2 a bottle of PhosFree sitting around from last year. I know there are different opinions on phosphates Here. Will PhosFree mess up the SLAM if I add it now?

5) finally, what about algaecide? i use this one for maintenance, but i dont see that mentioned here much Rx Clear® Swimming Pool Algaecide 60 Plus - 1 qt. - PoolSupplies.com

Sorry so long, just seems all related and want to learn
Taz,

Here are my thoughts on your comments:

1. The SLAM process has to be followed meticulously. There is no basis for estimating FC loss for adjusting FC loss after sunrise. Just wait 'till you can test first thing. My personal experience is that the 1st hour or two doesn't make that much difference. But different circumstances may cause it to be leveraging.

2. 20 ppm isn't normally hard to hold unless you have algae or extremely bright sun and no CYA. Remember though SLAM is a 24/7 process. So intermediate testing especially early in a SLAM helps a lot during the day.

3. Normally the dead algae is removed in the filter and/or completely oxidized by maintaining the FC at SLAM level. This is part of the reason you must Maintain.

4. I would not mess with phosphate reducers or algaecides. They usually make things worse.

If I were you I would vacuum up the algae and then clean the filter. Speaking of which, how is your filter pressure behaving? Usually even green pools clear up in days then the filter and SLAM FC levels finish the clean up. Are you filtering 24/7?

Chris
 

TazJMT

Well-known member
Jun 19, 2014
96
Spotswood, NJ
Taz,

Here are my thoughts on your comments:

1. The SLAM process has to be followed meticulously. There is no basis for estimating FC loss for adjusting FC loss after sunrise. Just wait 'till you can test first thing. My personal experience is that the 1st hour or two doesn't make that much difference. But different circumstances may cause it to be leveraging.

2. 20 ppm isn't normally hard to hold unless you have algae or extremely bright sun and no CYA. Remember though SLAM is a 24/7 process. So intermediate testing especially early in a SLAM helps a lot during the day.

3. Normally the dead algae is removed in the filter and/or completely oxidized by maintaining the FC at SLAM level. This is part of the reason you must Maintain.

4. I would not mess with phosphate reducers or algaecides. They usually make things worse.

If I were you I would vacuum up the algae and then clean the filter. Speaking of which, how is your filter pressure behaving? Usually even green pools clear up in days then the filter and SLAM FC levels finish the clean up. Are you filtering 24/7?

Chris
@setsailsoon
Yes I am filtering 24/7. Pressure seems fine.

I have maybe a touch more than 40 CYA so I am SLAMing for 50-there is a chance my CYA is 40 or less as I mentioned i hate that test. but even if my CYA was really low, i shouldnt lose FC in the dark (I'll test around 11pm before bed so 3+ hours of filtering in little/no light

I have been testing/adjusting FC 4 times per day. Just a few minutes ago, I got 14.5 FC, so 7 more cups of bleach go in to get back to 20. I vacuumed a few hours ago and the stuff is back again. Like i said, had it for years since the filter switch, it is maddening

Early this year, I had ammonia and SLAMed for like 6 days to get it right-thats why i can't believe this issue persisted through that

By clean the filter, do you mean backwash/rinse?

John
 
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setsailsoon

LifeTime Supporter
TFP Guide
Oct 25, 2015
1,586
Stuart/FL
@setsailsoon
Yes I am filtering 24/7. Pressure seems fine.

I have maybe a touch more than 40 CYA so I am SLAMing for 50-there is a chance my CYA is 40 or less as I mentioned i hate that test. but even if my CYA was really low, i shouldnt lose FC in the dark (I'll test around 11pm before bed so 3+ hours of filtering in little/no light

I have been testing/adjusting FC 4 times per day. Just a few minutes ago, I got 14.5 FC, so 7 more cups of bleach go in to get back to 20. I vacuumed a few hours ago and the stuff is back again. Like i said, had it for years since the filter switch, it is maddening

Early this year, I had ammonia and SLAMed for like 6 days to get it right-thats why i can't believe this issue persisted through that

By clean the filter, do you mean backwash/rinse?

John
The only reason you're losing FC after dark is algae or an organic com;pound in the water that's consuming the FC.

What kind of bleach are you using and what's the % sodium hypochlorite?

I know it's frustrating to be in the situation you're in but please realize you must complete the SLAM for it to work. Your cya test result is probably better than you think. Based on all your information it sounds like you've got a way to go. Hang in there and complete your SLAM, When I say clean your filter I mean backwash/rinse as you guessed.

Hang in there!
 

duraleigh

Admin
Mod Squad
TFP Expert
Platinum Supporter
LifeTime Supporter
In The Industry
Apr 1, 2007
32,859
Sebring, Florida
SLAMing your pool is absolutely nothing more than a methodical method of cleaning and sanitizing your pool.........but IT IS METHODICAL.

There are no provisions for sleeping in nor are there provisions for algaecides nor are there provisions for phosphate removers. If it is in the SLAM article, you are supposed to do it. If it is NOT in the SLAM article, please don't do it.

I often sound harsh but I do so to drive home a point......this process works each and every time without fail as long as you maintain the discipline to put on your blinders and do PRECISELY what the article is teaching you.
 
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Leebo

Admin
TFP Expert
LifeTime Supporter
Jul 21, 2011
8,938
Eastern Ohio
1)My most frustrating point is when I have passed the overnight FC loss test. The reason for this is normally, I will not get to the pool to test it during a SLAM until the sun has been up for 2 hours. Today, I happen to randomly wake up early so I got it just as the sun was coming up (and lost 2.0, so not quite done), but normally, if I had checked that 2 hours later in 2 hours of sun, I would have assumed I was done because I would have thought I lost 1 or less overnight and the sun got the rest. Tomorrow, when I hopefully wake up a little later, how in the world will I know when it was during the non-sun hours?
2)In the same idea, I keep losing about 2 overnight and am SLAMing to 20FC-is it just that 20 is too hard to hold?
3) We are trying to get rid of what we see in the picture below, I am SLAMing for what a few here have identified as dead algae on the bottom of my pool (poofs away when I try to touch it and only shows up only shows up in the vinyl crevices when the pump is running). We had had this stuff for over 2 years now (but I only learned to SLAM this year). I mean have a i really had algae for 2 years and it was "just kept at bay" by my regular chlorination? When I am finally rid of the issue according to SLAM rules, how do I get this stuff out of the pool? I assume the second I touch it with the vacuum, it disintegrates before most of it gets sucked up, so it will just swirl and get caught in the crevices again. Or do I brush it and let it swirl so the skimmer gets it? Picture below to show what it is as it sits now
Seeing you're still losing 2ppm per night I'd continue to assume you've got something going on. One thing that kinda keeps speaking to me as I read your posts is the topic of brushing. How often are you brushing the pool during the Slam??

4) my curiosity got the best of me and i had a pool store check for phosphates. They said I had a little over 300. I have 1/2 a bottle of PhosFree sitting around from last year. I know there are different opinions on phosphates Here. Will PhosFree mess up the SLAM if I add it now?
At just over 300ppb you're looking at almost no phosphates. You can simply ignore this for sure. It's counter-productive adding phosphate removers when you have live algae (which we are assuming you have) as the algae contains phosphates in their cell walls. As the algae dies from the chlorine it will release the phosphates back into the water, thus you're right back where you began. If you REALLY wanna worry about them, wait till you're done. That said, 300ppb is nothing and I wouldn't even stress about them until 1,000 minimum.

5) finally, what about algaecide? i use this one for maintenance, but i dont see that mentioned here much Rx Clear® Swimming Pool Algaecide 60 Plus - 1 qt. - PoolSupplies.com
This algaecide is a polyquat 60, so at least you've got the good stuff. That said, it won't kill off the algae, it'll only help prevent it. I'd toss it into storage for a few more weeks and use it before you close your pool.
 

TazJMT

Well-known member
Jun 19, 2014
96
Spotswood, NJ
Yes, so i woke up today and lost 2 FC again. Problem is, the light was on the pool for 3 hours-so again there is a confounding variable. I'm still at it, but it is just frustrating because the pool water is so clear it is almost invisible at this point, so i cant believe there is a problem, but sure enough, that stuff builds up after I vacuum. I am hoping when i vacuum today, it doesnt come back and that will also let me know i am done/near done. And that is assuming what i am seeing is dead algae (it better be or this was all a waste)

I am using 12.5% bleach from the pool store-SUR Shock i think?

I am not brushing the pool, i am vacuuming once a day in the afternoon as the article says to do

I also noticed that the extended test kit directions online say to use more powder at high FC levels (which i assume 20 is considered high) and also to do it fast-i didnt see that until yesterday, so i have been adding the first 25 drops or very quickly because i know i will need more than that. but at this point, i am going to run out of powder or drops before this is done, i am using 4 tests worth of drops every time!

I promise I am being methodical, but this process is also interfering with life at this point
 

TazJMT

Well-known member
Jun 19, 2014
96
Spotswood, NJ
Side note, in the beginning of the season, i used a bunch of MPS (non chlorine oxidizer) at the advice of the store (before i got my TF100 and advice here). Article says that MPS can show up as CC. But that was 8 weeks ago is there any chance that is still in the pool and skewing my results or is it long gone? It was 14lbs into a 10K pool
 
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Leebo

Admin
TFP Expert
LifeTime Supporter
Jul 21, 2011
8,938
Eastern Ohio
Let’s see this, give your pool a very good brushing the next day or two in addition to running any cleaners. Really focusing your brushing on any lights, skimmers, or steps you’ve got. Also, is this an above ground or in-ground pool?
 

TazJMT

Well-known member
Jun 19, 2014
96
Spotswood, NJ
Ok so today lost 2 when i woke up-added it
vacuum/backwash/brush at 2:30
test again at 4:30-down 7 fc from 20 to 13-added 7

This is crazy-i keep wondering if what i am seeing is dead algae, where is the live algae that is dying and apparently has been for 2+ years? Ladder is new this year so it isnt that

I think I can finally word what I dont understand about the process:
So if 40/50 CYA is made to hold and maintain about 6-7 target FC under regular chlorination and when i was doing that, I would lose about 3ppm per day. Now when I am putting 20FC in for a SLAM, i am losing 10ppm or so per day. So if I am losing 10 per day now, why wasn't i going from 7ppm FC down to 0 by the end of the day before I was SLAMing? If I am losing 10ppm now, why wasn't I losing all of my 7 before?
 

TazJMT

Well-known member
Jun 19, 2014
96
Spotswood, NJ
Let’s see this, give your pool a very good brushing the next day or two in addition to running any cleaners. Really focusing your brushing on any lights, skimmers, or steps you’ve got. Also, is this an above ground or in-ground pool?
It is above ground. No lights and the ladder is brand new this year (I needed a new ladder anyway, but was hoping that when I threw the old one our, the problem would go away). I actually did just soak a scour pad in bleach and clean the skimmer mouth as well as brush the walls
 

frogabog

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LifeTime Supporter
Jul 16, 2010
2,833
Portland, Oregon
You lost 2ppm overnight, therefore yes. You still have a problem and need to continue to SLAM.

How many times a day are you testing and adding while performing SLAM?
 

TazJMT

Well-known member
Jun 19, 2014
96
Spotswood, NJ
You lost 2ppm overnight, therefore yes. You still have a problem and need to continue to SLAM.

How many times a day are you testing and adding while performing SLAM?
4-morning, mid afternoon, late afternoon, night

when i got back to work in a few days, i dont know how i will keep that schedule up
 

frogabog

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LifeTime Supporter
Jul 16, 2010
2,833
Portland, Oregon
You could increase that schedule now when you can, and possibly be done or very close to done when you return to work. Can you test and add every 2-4 hours over the next few days?
 
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