First thoughts? Concerns?

yosarrian

Member
Sep 3, 2022
10
St. Louis, MO
Anything stand out? Concerning? Need to get clarified? Want to move forward but still learning A LOT. Any feedback would be so appreciated.

16x 44 Gunite pool 6 ft tanning ledge
Supply all drawings and permits as needed
1. Excavate pool according to drawings at a depth of 3”6” - 7’0” Pool shell will consist of #3 rebar 8” on center
2. All plumbing will be consistent of schedule 40 2” and 3” pvc
3. Pool will have 2 main drains , 2 skimmers , 6 returns , with 2 led globrite lights
4. Coping will be bullnose travertine --- color per homeowner with 6 inch tile band at $18 sq ft
5. Decking bid for up to 600 sq ft broom finish concrete
6. Estimated 85ft 48” aluminum echelon 3 rail fence with 1 self latching 36” gate
7. All equipment Pentair , with 1 intellipro pump , 1 Clean and clear plus cartridge filter, , ic40 salt chlorinator,easytouch panel with screenlogic remote.
8. Install drains as needed for gutters and run off
9. All spoils to be removed from job
10. Plaster pool in a pebble tech or pebble sheen finish
11. Finish grade
 

HermanTX

Gold Supporter
TFP Guide
May 20, 2020
4,129
Katy TX
Pool Size
14600
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Jandy Aquapure 1400
Welcome to TFP
I estimate about 28,000 gal - need the PB to confirm. You may do better to upgrade to the IC60 SWCG as you want at least 2x your pool volume.
Have your skimmers and main drain all on independent lines back to your equipment pad.
The Pentair IntelliFlo3 is the newest pump by Pentair - you may ask if that is available.
Get the largest cartridge filter 420 or 520 size that meets your budget
EasyTouch and Screenlogic is old technology - the newer IntelliCenter is current generation for Pentair automation.

Have you discussed payment options - you need to hold back 10% as final payment AFTER pool is filled and punch list completed by PB.

Have you gotten 2-3 quotes to compare?
 
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AQUA~HOLICS

In The Industry
Jul 19, 2021
794
Southern California
Need to provide a drawing to show locations of skimmers, return lines, lights, overflow line, transition of excavation from shallow to deep, equipment location and type of pad, location of steps and so on. Who is responsible for plastic wrapping the pool after excavation and before Shotcrete if rain occurs? These are just some of the questions that come up for only excavation.
 
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yosarrian

Member
Sep 3, 2022
10
St. Louis, MO
Welcome to TFP
I estimate about 28,000 gal - need the PB to confirm. You may do better to upgrade to the IC60 SWCG as you want at least 2x your pool volume.
Have your skimmers and main drain all on independent lines back to your equipment pad.
The Pentair IntelliFlo3 is the newest pump by Pentair - you may ask if that is available.
Get the largest cartridge filter 420 or 520 size that meets your budget
EasyTouch and Screenlogic is old technology - the newer IntelliCenter is current generation for Pentair automation.

Have you discussed payment options - you need to hold back 10% as final payment AFTER pool is filled and punch list completed by PB.

Have you gotten 2-3 quotes to compare?
Wow, thanks so much for taking a look. This community is so cool and kind.
I'm going to ask him all these questions.
What do you mean by "punch list"? Yes, discussed payment options and I feel comfortable with the way he laid it out. A bit cheaper than other builders, like that he's very hands-on, and like the look of the projects he's done before. Got about 3 other quotes.
 

wireform

Silver Supporter
In The Industry
Aug 15, 2017
4,634
Spring Valley, NY
That means each skimmer runs it's own pipe all the way to the equipment pad with its own valve. Same goes for the main drain. This way you have max control should a problem arise in one skimmer you can valve it off and still have the other skimmer work where as if they're tied together before the equipment pad you wouldn't be able to just isolate one. Also insist on jandy never lube valves or the pentair equal which can be rebuilt with a kit should it start to leak.
 
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yosarrian

Member
Sep 3, 2022
10
St. Louis, MO
That means each skimmer runs it's own pipe all the way to the equipment pad with its own valve. Same goes for the main drain. This way you have max control should a problem arise in one skimmer you can valve it off and still have the other skimmer work where as if they're tied together before the equipment pad you wouldn't be able to just isolate one.
Ah, brilliant! Thank you!
 

wireform

Silver Supporter
In The Industry
Aug 15, 2017
4,634
Spring Valley, NY
I would also make sure the plumbing installation is all rigid pvc and none of the pvc flex which is used by some. One of our active members just weeks ago had to run a new line to a skimmer because something got sucked in and was stuck at a kink or collapsed spot which couldn't be snaked and would have been most likely a non issue had it been rigid pvc.
 
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HermanTX

Gold Supporter
TFP Guide
May 20, 2020
4,129
Katy TX
Pool Size
14600
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Jandy Aquapure 1400
Wow, thanks so much for taking a look. This community is so cool and kind.
I'm going to ask him all these questions.
What do you mean by "punch list"? Yes, discussed payment options and I feel comfortable with the way he laid it out. A bit cheaper than other builders, like that he's very hands-on, and like the look of the projects he's done before. Got about 3 other quotes.
Punch List is those list of items that builders (home or pool) tend to keep pushing off till the very end and hope the buyer forgets. It may be items such as connect the autofill line, install the weir flap in the skimmer, redo a section of tiles, clean excess grout off of the waterline tiles, add that light above the equipment pad that the electrician forgot to do, etc. You will need to make that list and keep reminding the PB to do those things and the only way to ensure that is to hold back final payment.
 
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SecoSteve

Silver Supporter
Jul 28, 2020
262
Lincoln University, Pa
Pool Size
25000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Jandy Aquapure 1400
What is the tanning ledge going to be used for? How deep do YOU want the water to be on it? Will there be furniture put on there? When we contracted our ledge, the builder suggested one too small for lounge chairs, so we had that adjusted. You mentioned 6ft, is that length? What about width? Once you get the dimensions from the PB, lay that out in your lawn with a garden hose and put something similar to any furniture on the "ledge" to see if it will fit AND you have room to move around. Also, think about what design you want any steps to be coming off the ledge. Our PB designed wedding cake style, but that took too much of the pool away, so we adjusted that as well.
 

yosarrian

Member
Sep 3, 2022
10
St. Louis, MO
Welcome to TFP
I estimate about 28,000 gal - need the PB to confirm. You may do better to upgrade to the IC60 SWCG as you want at least 2x your pool volume.
Have your skimmers and main drain all on independent lines back to your equipment pad.
The Pentair IntelliFlo3 is the newest pump by Pentair - you may ask if that is available.
Get the largest cartridge filter 420 or 520 size that meets your budget
EasyTouch and Screenlogic is old technology - the newer IntelliCenter is current generation for Pentair automation.

Have you discussed payment options - you need to hold back 10% as final payment AFTER pool is filled and punch list completed by PB.

Have you gotten 2-3 quotes to compare?

Wow, thanks so much for taking a look. This community is so cool and kind.
I'm going to ask him all these questions.
What do you mean by "punch list"? Yes, discussed payment options and I feel comfortable with the way he laid it out. A bit cheaper than other builders, like that he's very hands-on, and like the look of the projects he's done before. Got about 3 other quotes.
Some answers:
Uses starite intellipro vsf pump .
Says pool only 25k gallons and a ic40 is more than enough for this pool
Says The Intellicenter is for pools with a bunch of water features . Easytouch is the same thing just more user friendly when you dont have water features.
All lines are all dedicated back to pad with their own valves .
 

gingrbredman

Gold Supporter
Jun 10, 2020
715
Chicagoland
Pool Size
11200
Surface
Fiberglass
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
Not that you are looking to get into a fight with your new builder, but these two statements are just not correct.....

Says pool only 25k gallons and a ic40 is more than enough for this pool
Technically speaking, the ic40 is rated for a 40k gallon pool, so maybe "enough" for your 25k gallon pool, but not at all "more than enough". With a cell at least 2x rated for your pool, you can run the cell at a lower output, or run the pump less to get the chlorine you need. Running it less will extend the life, and for the small amount of price difference, it will pay for itself for sure. The ic60 is only about $300 more than the ic40, for that little amount difference just for the part, so there really shouldn't be a question, go for the bigger cell.

40 vs 60.JPG

Says The Intellicenter is for pools with a bunch of water features . Easytouch is the same thing just more user friendly when you dont have water features
This is not true at all. The EasyTouch is not at all the same thing, and is not more user friendly at all for the home owner. The Intellicenter is the newest automation from Pentair, but my guess is this is irrelevant to this pool builder. To make a statement like that, he either has stock of the EasyTouch units, or does not want to learn the newest automation so he is trying to steer you away from it. No builder who actually understands the Intellicenter would make a statement like that. It is not just un-true, but a dishonest statement to make in order for you to back off on your request.

Water features or not, wouldn't you want the newest technology for your pool if you had the option? Many people here have EasyTouch, and a lot of them say it is just fine. But if building a new pool, almost all of them would also say, why buy the 20 year old car for the same price as the newest one?
 

yosarrian

Member
Sep 3, 2022
10
St. Louis, MO
Not that you are looking to get into a fight with your new builder, but these two statements are just not correct.....


Technically speaking, the ic40 is rated for a 40k gallon pool, so maybe "enough" for your 25k gallon pool, but not at all "more than enough". With a cell at least 2x rated for your pool, you can run the cell at a lower output, or run the pump less to get the chlorine you need. Running it less will extend the life, and for the small amount of price difference, it will pay for itself for sure. The ic60 is only about $300 more than the ic40, for that little amount difference just for the part, so there really shouldn't be a question, go for the bigger cell.

View attachment 452776


This is not true at all. The EasyTouch is not at all the same thing, and is not more user friendly at all for the home owner. The Intellicenter is the newest automation from Pentair, but my guess is this is irrelevant to this pool builder. To make a statement like that, he either has stock of the EasyTouch units, or does not want to learn the newest automation so he is trying to steer you away from it. No builder who actually understands the Intellicenter would make a statement like that. It is not just un-true, but a dishonest statement to make in order for you to back off on your request.

Water features or not, wouldn't you want the newest technology for your pool if you had the option? Many people here have EasyTouch, and a lot of them say it is just fine. But if building a new pool, almost all of them would also say, why buy the 20 year old car for the same price as the newest one?
Dang, that really helps. What do I do?!
 

gingrbredman

Gold Supporter
Jun 10, 2020
715
Chicagoland
Pool Size
11200
Surface
Fiberglass
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
Dang, that really helps. What do I do?!
That is a tough one, but I would try and remind any potential pool builder, that this is YOUR pool, and you will be the one that will be living with any of these decisions. Pool Builders can be short sided, and they have a way of going about things, and are not likely used to really informed customers, so they do not know how to react. They throw responses back, and to an un-informed consumer, would usually result in accepting them, at their word. A little confidence in your expectations can go a long way, and remember, its not like you are asking them to build the pool for free, or are asking for some kind of unrealistic demand.

First, the salt cell would be the easiest. While he believes the ic40 is "more than enough", remember that pool builders are usually not the experts in water chemistry, and they surely are not the one to maintain your pool after they are gone. He may believe that, but you know better, so the ic60 is the right choice in this pool. Seeing as you could get the ic60 for only $300 more than the ic40, I would firmly, and confidently tell the pool builder you would like to upgrade to the ic60. The install is the same, so the only difference in price should be the cell itself. For the small amount of money here, that one is the first and easiest to do. There should be no logically reason why the builder would argue with this.

Second, and the harder one, is the upgrade to the Intellicenter. Again, firmly, and confidently, and politely of course, explain to any pool builder, that you would prefer to have the newest technology to automate your pool, so why not just set it up right from the beginning? Why put in a 20 year old system, when there is a newer option? The costs are not too far apart here, but this may be a harder sell, especially if the builder has a bunch of Easy Touch systems in stock, or they just do not know how to install them and program them. As I mentioned, the systems are not the same, so there are some differences in install and programming, so if your builder has never done one, they might not be all that willing to try. Also, the Intellicenter is harder to get these days as most new builds with Pentair automation would lean towards the Intellicenter, and with all the pools, and supply chain issues, they can be delayed. BUT, there are a lot of builds being done here, and they have the Intellicenter, so it can be done, but could take some time to get. With the right schedule, it could be done on your pool, only if the builder is willing to work with you on it.

My pool builder had never installed an Intellicenter back in 2020 when I was getting my build set up. I insisted on the newest technology, and while they were open and honest about their hesitation, they agreed. They are a Pentair equipment pool builder, and as such, have access to the Pentair expertise that is out there. Pentair has engineers, and techs out in the filed that help pool builders if they want it. Mine happed to be one of the builders who used that expertise when needed, and had them out to my house, or on the phone several times during the setup and it has worked great! Some old school pool builders do not want to bother with getting help, so will install older equipment because that is all they know, and all they buy. But it is YOUR pool, you should get what you want, and this is one that I think is worth the commitment to.

Best of luck!
 

HermanTX

Gold Supporter
TFP Guide
May 20, 2020
4,129
Katy TX
Pool Size
14600
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Jandy Aquapure 1400
What do I do?!
I second everything that was stated by @gingrbredman
The most important part is that it is YOUR pool for the long-term duration. Also, you are only in the quote stage, or have you signed a contract yet? The PB would have significant time to find the Intellicenter and the IC60. I remember in another thread with a new member, the PB agreed to put in the EasyTouch system until the Intellicenter was delivered - so PBs can be flexible.

Also, ensure the VS pump is compatible with the Pentair automation system. As stated earlier, the Pentair IntelliFlo3 is the newest pump by Pentair.

In the big scheme of things, these upgrades are minimal to the overall cost of your pool and backyard paradise, but it can make it so much easier to manage for the long-term.
 
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TX2OBX

Silver Supporter
Nov 26, 2021
153
OBX NC
Pool Size
12000
Surface
Fiberglass
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Hayward Aqua Rite (T-9)
Dang, that really helps. What do I do?!
Unfortunately I have found that with my PB and based on stories I read here (almost daily) to be the typical PB attitude of "this is adequate, I'm the builder and the expert and know more than you so listen to me and do it my way" and dont take kindly to wants or requests above what they have suggested especially when it comes to the technical stuff of the pool and what makes it run vs just telling them all the expensive bells and whistles you want. It was always a lets call it a "debate" with my PB that came up every time we discussed anything with my build above and beyond the typical what he has always done, still working through some of those. But oversizing the heater and filter were major points of contention. His go to reply when I wanted to change what he spec'd was "the Hayward rep said this is plenty for your pool" and didn't understand that "plenty" isn't what I want when no wrong can come from spending very little extra to get far better performance. 3" plumbing for my spa was also a huge issue, as were the salt cell sizing It was supposed to be a 40k cell and he compromised and did two (25k and 15k). What bugged me more than anything was the pompous attitude. Not what you say but how you say it kinda thing. I feel like he would come off that way which made me defensive and then accomplished nothing vs sorting it out.

Honestly it just wore me out. A surprising amount, im usually pretty good with confrontation. It got to a point that I would avoid going out of house when he was on site to not have to deal with talking to him. As even after saying what id want and think it was settled he would bring it up again. Lots of other little things along the way but those stuck out to me. But during construction of the pool is when its the cheapest and easiest to change something so I always spoke up to avoid regrets down the line. I just was not mentally prepared for the arguments every time I requested something and am used to someone just saying "ok we will get on it" or "that could work but I recommend this way if this is what you're trying to accomplish and here is why" not just "screw you I know what im doing and you're an ill informed homeowner" end rant lol.

Suggested above by Gingrbredman is good advise, and what I had to resort to. Remind him (gently) its my check book and me living with this pool, in 3 months you will never see this place again, still some compromises were made, and thankfully (I think) all of that is in the past as the pool portion is almost done and now its mainly subs working at the house which are far nicer to deal with.

Good luck! This site was the most valuable and powerful tool when building (still is, im about 80% there at the moment) and I wouldn't have had the confidence to back up what I wanted with out guidance from here. I think Pbs get very surprised how informed home owners are thanks to this site.
 
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yosarrian

Member
Sep 3, 2022
10
St. Louis, MO
OK, got another quote from a new PB...thoughts? Concerns?


18’ X 36’ GEOMETRIC GUNITE POOL SHELL
3’6” SHALLOW END DEPTH 5’ DEEP END DEPTH
SUNLEDGE WITH ENTRY STEPS PER DESIGN INCLUDED
PEBBLE SHEEN FINISH INCLUDED
TRAVERTINE COPING INCLUDED
PORCELAIN TILE AROUND POOL PERIMETER INCLUDED
**GLASS TILE UPGRADE DEPENDENT ON SELECTION**
PENTAIR LED MICROBRITE LIGHTS INCLUDED
PENTAIR TRITON II 300LBS SAND FILTER
PENTAIR WHISPERFLO PUMP
SKIMMERS INCLUDED
WALL RETURNS INCLUDED
MAIN DRAINS INCLUDED
5’X7’ EQUIPMENT PAD
RETURN YARD TO ROUGH FINAL GRADE
CONSTRUCTION SPECIFICATIONS
CONCRETE APRON DECKING IS OF 6 BAG MIX WITH FIBER MESH
GUNITE CONCRETE FLOOR IS 8 INCHES THICK WITH 3/8” REBAR
GRID ON 12” CENTERS
GUNITE CONCRETE POOL WALLS ARE 8 INCHES THICK WITH
3/8” & ½” REBAR GRID ON 12” CENTERS
GUNITE CONCRETE BOND BEAM ALONG TOP 12” OF WALLS
FLARED OUT TO 12” THICK WITH ½” REBAR GRID
PVC PLUMBING LINES WILL BE OF 2” SIZE
POOL UPGRADES INCLUDED
-PENTIAR EASYTOUCH WITH SALT CHLORINATOR $3,880
-PENTAIR 250K BTU GAS HEATER $4,500
-PENTAIR SCREEN LOGIC 2 (MOBILE AUTOMATION) $900
-PENTAIR 930 ROBOTIC POOL CLEANER $1,880
-MERLIN SMARTMESH WINTER SAFETY COVER $5,000
(COVERSTAR AUTOMATIC COVER WITH GUNITE VAULT SYSTEM
ADD $20,000)
SERVICE
1ST CLOSING AND POOL COVER INSTALLATION AND POOL
OPENING INCLUDED
AND ALL WARRANTIES ON POOL AND EQUIPMENT
3 YEAR WARRANTY ON PENTAIR EQUIPMENT
5 YEAR WARRANTY ON PEBBLE SHEEN FROM APPLICATOR
10 YEAR WARRANTY ON GUNITE POOL/SPA SHELL
 

gingrbredman

Gold Supporter
Jun 10, 2020
715
Chicagoland
Pool Size
11200
Surface
Fiberglass
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
That is a long list of stuff, but some of it not so specific, so I'll try and go through a few lines for you and hope that helps....

PENTAIR LED MICROBRITE LIGHTS INCLUDED
Good choice on the microbite lights. Pentair's newest light, standard 1.5" fittings, and can be easily replaced when needed in kind, or with aftermarket ones. The quote does not show how many you owuld get, but would think at least three along the wall so they shine away from the house.

PENTAIR TRITON II 300LBS SAND FILTER
Sand filters are nice for filtration, but I personally like the cartridge filter for ease. That is a personal preference, you may get other opinions, but my Pentair cartridge filter does a great job

PENTAIR WHISPERFLO PUMP
Seems like an odd choice of pump. The gold standard in the Pentair line is the Intelliflo VSP.

SKIMMERS INCLUDED
How many? Two, independently plumbed would be best.

WALL RETURNS INCLUDED
How many? You also want to make sure the skimmers and returns are placed in relation to the prevailing winds so you get the best skimming action. Nothing worse than returns pointed towards the wind and you have a big bowl of floating debris because they were not all placed correctly.

-PENTIAR EASYTOUCH WITH SALT CHLORINATOR $3,880
PENTAIR SCREEN LOGIC 2 (MOBILE AUTOMATION) $900
A better choice would be the Intellicenter, and probably not for a whole not more money. You have time in your build schedule to get one, and you do not need an add on screenlogic, it is already built into the Intellicenter. Also, the quote does not show which SWCG. What is the pool volume in this new proposed build? Lets say its 20k gallons, you want to make sure the SWCG is at least the ic40. For about $300 more than that, you can get the ic60 and really have a solid cell. You want to make sure the cell is rated at least 2x your pool volume.

PENTAIR 930 ROBOTIC POOL CLEANER $1,880
I really like my 930, its just a rebranded Maytronics/Dolphin, but can be had for like $900 at Marina Pool & Spa, a trusted vendor many members here have go to for their robots.

(COVERSTAR AUTOMATIC COVER WITH GUNITE VAULT SYSTEM
ADD $20,000)
Wow, have covers gone up in price! I got my cover for about $15k two years ago but have seen a lot of members throw around prices like $18k, so its close. I love mine, I do, and would do it again in a hearbeat, just need to get past the sticker shock!

10 YEAR WARRANTY ON GUNITE POOL/SPA SHELL
I'm not a gunnite expert, but the warranty seems light to me. I know its st. Louis vs. say Texas, but usually the shells are lifetime warranties. Maybe someone else with more expertise can chime in here.

I think you need a little more details and with a few tweaks, could be a really cool pool build!
 

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