First quote came back...seeking advice. - Property Line Adjustment

K-Row

Member
Greetings from Charleston, SC. Received my first quote for an IG pool. Might be the only one I get since these companies are swamped with requests during these strange times.

Here is a link to my backyard Backyard looks bigger than it actual is since my property line cuts at an angle. The HOA has already given me their approval to build our future fence over the property line and put it right next to the pond since that is all unused land to them.

Anything stick out to you in the quote below? I'm waiting to get a fully itemized quote with the specific equipment included. I'll update this thread when (if) that comes back. Also, please feel free to pick apart the design picture I included! I'm slightly worried about the pool feeling small since in certain places it will only be about 11-12' wide. Anyone with a similar design/size that can chime in? We don't really plan on hosting many people here so it would typically be used by my wife, myself, and our 2 kids ages 6 and 2.


POOL SPECIFICATIONS
• Pool size: 16’8” (Width) x 32’1” (Length) 392 Sq. Ft.
• Water depths: 3’6 shallow end up to 6' deep end
• Choice of frost proof 6x6 waterline tile
• Excavation with dirt removal from site or spread around site if needed – clean up construction site
• Standard skimmer, returns, drains w/plastered lids and hydro static valve
• 2” Scheduled 40 PVC plumbing lines, pressure tested, 30’ plumbing included w/necessary valves
• Deluxe vacuum and cleaning tools with initial startup kit
• 1x Dedicated well head under pool for standard de-watering during excavation process
• Up to 2 loads of stone gravel base for water management under pool shell
• Premium grade 60 steel rebar • Shotcrete 8” structural walls and floor at 4000 PSI application with 10” bond beam
• Building permits and construction drawings
• Startup and familiarization of pool and equipment
• Luna Quartz ‘Martinique’ interior finish with 10-year surface warranty
• Lifetime warranty on pool shell
• Workers compensation, general liability and property damage insurance included
• 1-Month (4 weeks) weekly complete service package (chemicals/cleaning) – only available in-service areas POOL EQUIPMENT & ELECTRICAL (3-year warranty on all equipment) – Pentair equipment
• Energy efficient variable speed pump – includes frost protection
• Cartridge filter setup / Includes 2x LED light package
• Salt system w/advanced automation package – monitor pool from iPhone/android/pc
• Concrete equipment pad (2.5x5) Approx. / Electrical allowance up to $750.00

* SPA SPECIFICATIONS:
• 7’x7’ raised built in spa to include: 3 Ft wide spillway, 400k BTU heater (gas line by others), 1x LED light, blower, 6x therapy jets and plaster drain lids – Upgrades included: cartridge filter, intelliflo pump, paramount 360 drain

*DECKING FEATURE
• Includes travertine bullnose coping
• Additional concrete 785 Sq. Ft.
• Steps / Sun shelf w/ bubbler
• Deck Drainage – Transition from pool area and house

PROJECT TOTAL $73,850.00

ITEMS NOT INCLUDED Door alarms per code, temporary water, power or fences, gas and water supplies, fencing or railing, stands for heaters or required engineering for stands, v-zone forms, cat5 line for automation systems, landscaping or irrigation, adequate fill dirt, survey or drainage plans.

pool design.jpg

Thanks for reading!
 
Last edited:

HermanTX

Gold Supporter
May 20, 2020
651
Katy TX
Very nice design and welcome to poo ownership. I did rough calculation of 14,600 gals which is nice size. My pool is similar volume but shape a little different. My max. depth is 5 1/2 ft in center of pool. I have 2 skimmers and highly propose you request 2 as wind had more to do with moving surface debris than does pool circulation so maybe discuss/consider skimmers at opposite ends. Also you may want them to have independent plumbing back to the equipment pad for better control. Pentair equipment is good, that is what I have and is a reputable brand, plus all of the automation should work seamlessly from the same mfgr. There is no mention of a pool cleaner. Most new pool owners go with a robot cleaner. The other option is a pressure operated cleaner that requires another pump and plumbing lines. You should investigate what you would like. If you go with robot, then you need to have a electrical GFCI socket relatively nearby (most robots come with 60ft cords so they can cover multiple sizes of pools). I am sure others will chime in but this is some quick points that came to mind when reading your specifications.
 

bmoreswim

Mod Squad
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Jul 16, 2012
6,444
Central MD
A few comments:

How many returns? Where? How plumbed. Should be homerun and not tied to skimmer. Edit - Skimmer should not be tied to a main drain is what I meant. Wouldn’t be tied to a return obviously.

I’d expand the equipment pad to 2.5 x 7 and have them spread out the equipment to cover that space. Much easier to get to stuff. Jandy Neverlube valves or equivalent. Unions on all equipment. Install overflow. You may not need auto fill in SC but many like them.

Light placement?

Get model numbers on all equipment to post up for evaluation. SWCG should be IC 40, so you have at least 2x your pool volume.
 
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K-Row

Member
Very nice design and welcome to poo ownership. I did rough calculation of 14,600 gals which is nice size. My pool is similar volume but shape a little different. My max. depth is 5 1/2 ft in center of pool. I have 2 skimmers and highly propose you request 2 as wind had more to do with moving surface debris than does pool circulation so maybe discuss/consider skimmers at opposite ends. Also you may want them to have independent plumbing back to the equipment pad for better control. Pentair equipment is good, that is what I have and is a reputable brand, plus all of the automation should work seamlessly from the same mfgr. There is no mention of a pool cleaner. Most new pool owners go with a robot cleaner. The other option is a pressure operated cleaner that requires another pump and plumbing lines. You should investigate what you would like. If you go with robot, then you need to have a electrical GFCI socket relatively nearby (most robots come with 60ft cords so they can cover multiple sizes of pools). I am sure others will chime in but this is some quick points that came to mind when reading your specifications.
The builders quote came back as 9815 gallons for the pool (spa not included). They also based that on 3'-6' instead of 3.5-6 so not sure if that makes up for the difference. I'll ask about another skimmer...we don't have any trees close to the pool and we'll be getting a mesh fence for safety but that will only be up for so long.

I tried to stake out the pool today and can't help but feeling that 11-12' in some areas just really small...especially when we are talking $70K +

My wife doesn't seem to care lol.

They include a "deluxe vacuum and cleaning tools" not sure what that entails but I've asked about it! Hope to update this thread asap when I get more details.

Any thoughts on the spa placement? Should it be closer to the house?
 
Last edited:

K-Row

Member
A few comments:

How many returns? Where? How plumbed. Should be homerun and not tied to skimmer.

I’d expand the equipment pad to 2.5 x 7 and have them spread out the equipment to cover that space. Much easier to get to stuff. Jandy Neverlube valves or equivalent. Unions on all equipment. Install overflow. You may not need auto fill in SC but many like them.

Light placement?

Get model numbers on all equipment to post up for evaluation. SWCG should be IC 40, so you have at least 2x your pool volume.


I loved your pool build thread!

You have questions that I don't have answers to yet. I'll update this thread when I do. Good idea about the pad. We haven't discussed light placement. I have sent an email about getting an itemized quote and specific equipment included. I'll update once that comes in.
I'll also ask about the autofill. We get the full sun until about 5pm every day.

Seems like builders reallllly want to make sure you aren't kicking tires these days. They are swamped and I'm sure plenty of people aren't serious about the investment.
 
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HermanTX

Gold Supporter
May 20, 2020
651
Katy TX
The builders quote came back as 9815 gallons for the pool (spa not included). They also based that on 3'-6' instead of 3.5-6 so not sure if that makes up for the difference. I'll ask about another skimmer...we don't have any trees close to the pool and we'll be getting a mesh fence for safety but that will only be up for so long.

I tried to stake out the pool today and can't help but feeling that 11-12' in some areas just really small...especially when we are talking $70K +

My wife doesn't seem to care lol.

They include a "deluxe vacuum and cleaning tools" not sure what they entails but I've asked about it! Hope to update this thread asap when I get more details.

Any thoughts on the spa placement? Should it be closer to the house?
A deluxe vacuum is a manual piece of equipment with a suction hose. Its good to have handy if you need to remove a lot of debris on bottom of pool. However, a cleaner is automated to run while you relax. It picks up debris on a constant basis thus never having debris build up.
My narrow part is just over 14ft. I like the kidney shape of your pool. Are you able to kickout that minimum width a little? Better to make that decision now and be happy as you cannot fix that later.
I think your pool can be flip flopped if you wish the spa closer to house. Its more of a personal preference. In current view, you sit in spa and view the house. If flip flopped, the spa would be closer to house and maybe easier to socialize with those not in the spa. Its your choice.
 

jdisauwg

Gold Supporter
Jun 19, 2020
17
Houston
Welcome K-Row, I am in the middle of a build here in Texas, but am originally from Charleston, well Goose Creek!

What is your decking made of? I would have them tie it back into your patio or cover it all with a spray deck or tile to make it look continuous and not like 2 separate materials.
I have gotten the feedback during our build to move to a robot for cleaning instead of having to use a pump cleaner, might be a consideration.
Agree with @HermanTX regarding the spa placement., and would 2nd the return skimmer, which all 5 bids we got did mention that to us as well.
What does gas line by others mean in your quote? We had to have our gas line moved for $650, plus we had to upgrade our gas meter $380 to run the 400k BTU Heater, might want to consider this in your cost planning. Also, didnt see overflow or automatic filling in the quote, this should be thrown in for the price they are quoting.

Good luck!
 

K-Row

Member
I received some information on the equipment.

Anything stick out on this list?


Pentair Mfg.
- VS IntelliFlo Pump
- CCP420 Cartridge filter
- Master Temp 400k BTU Heater
- Screen Logic 2
- IC20 Salt Cartridge

Luna Quartz plaster - 'Martinique'
Tile - TBD
Travertine Coping - TBD

Payment Outline:
20% Deposit
20% Upon excavation
40% Upon shotcrete (gunite)
20% Upon tile & coping
Final $1,000.00 upon plaster
 

K-Row

Member
Welcome K-Row, I am in the middle of a build here in Texas, but am originally from Charleston, well Goose Creek!

What is your decking made of? I would have them tie it back into your patio or cover it all with a spray deck or tile to make it look continuous and not like 2 separate materials.
I have gotten the feedback during our build to move to a robot for cleaning instead of having to use a pump cleaner, might be a consideration.
Agree with @HermanTX regarding the spa placement., and would 2nd the return skimmer, which all 5 bids we got did mention that to us as well.
What does gas line by others mean in your quote? We had to have our gas line moved for $650, plus we had to upgrade our gas meter $380 to run the 400k BTU Heater, might want to consider this in your cost planning. Also, didnt see overflow or automatic filling in the quote, this should be thrown in for the price they are quoting.

Good luck!
I'm actually in Hanahan now but easier to just say Charleston lol. I'm assuming I'll have to get someone else to run the gas line and am expecting that expense. The current "deck" is just a 10 x 10 concrete. The new decking will be brushed concrete as well.

Forgot to ask about the auto fill and overflow drain. Off to do that now.

Thanks for your feedback!
 

Jimrahbe

Mod Squad
TFP Expert
LifeTime Supporter
Jul 7, 2014
19,126
Bedford, TX
K,

Make sure the EasyTouch you get comes as a package and includes an internal salt cell power supply, plus the IC20 salt cell, plus the two actuators needed for the pool/spa operation. Basically you want to avoid getting an EasyTouch "lite" system that some pool builders try and use.. Just like lite salad dressing it will not work well, and tastes terrible. :mrgreen:

Personally, I'd get the package with the IC40 salt cell which is a larger cell and should last longer, for not much of a price increase. This is because the larger the cell, the less time you will have to run your pump to make the amount of chlorine your pool will use..

I have three EasyTouch systems with the IntelliFlo pumps, and saltwater generates.. They have all worked great, and in my tiny mind, the best pool decisions that I have ever made.. That said, if I were going to build a new pool today, I would go with Pentair's new IntelliCenter, which is a much better system with newer tech. The cost of the EasyTouch + ScreenLogic is just about the same as the IntelliCenter which comes with a built-in ScreenLogic-like system.

I can guarantee that any cleaning tools, the pool builder will give you will be cheap and almost useless..

I would also recommend a low voltage robot pool cleaner over any water powered cleaner.. I find it odd that was not on the equipment list, unless you have already told the pool builder that you want a Robot..

Like this..

Thanks,

Jim R.
 

gingrbredman

Well-known member
Jun 10, 2020
113
Chicagoland
To add on to Jim's comments, while the IC20 would be fine based on your roughly 10k gallon estimated pool volume, the IC40 combo with the Intellecenter package is really only a few dollars more, and would probably be a worthwhile investment in the long run.

What I've noticed some PBs do when quoting Pentair automation is they call out "ScreenLogic", but do not say what this is actually tied to. It could be the Easy Touch system, or it could be Intellicenter. It seems some PB are comfortable with Easy Touch and Screen Logic, they are tried and true, they understand them, and can install and program them very well. If you ask them to "upgrade" to the Intellicenter, and talk about hard wired ethernet cables, they look at you with a blank stare sometimes, but in the end, the newer system is probably what you would want to install.

Just for a reference point, go to Polytech Pools and look at the different packages they have there for EasyTouch, Intellicenter, and the salt cell bundles and you can see the price differences on a retail pricing level. Once I did that, I went back to my PB with enough information to confidently talk about all the options and what the price differences should be.
 

jkxpooldesign

Well-known member
Jun 27, 2019
73
Florida
I received some information on the equipment.

Anything stick out on this list?


Pentair Mfg.
- VS IntelliFlo Pump
- CCP420 Cartridge filter
- Master Temp 400k BTU Heater
- Screen Logic 2
- IC20 Salt Cartridge

Luna Quartz plaster - 'Martinique'
Tile - TBD
Travertine Coping - TBD

Payment Outline:
20% Deposit
20% Upon excavation
40% Upon shotcrete (gunite)
20% Upon tile & coping
Final $1,000.00 upon plaster
I would question the payment schedule. You're 80% paid by the time shotcrete is done and the project is only about 50% done at that point. I would negotiate better terms. Your $s will be the power you hold over the PB to complete the job in a timely manner and done correctly. .
 

spd500

Well-known member
Jul 20, 2020
402
Houston, TX
We are going with a similar design, but with the spa and tanning ledge next to each other. We intentionally moved the spa to the end farther away from out house because we didn't want to have it right outside of the master bedroom, but that is just personal choice. One thing that I would look at on your setup is the steps seem to be really large with having the tanning ledge right there. On the skimmers and returns, I had the builder send me a drawing of exactly where they planned on putting them and then ended up moving things around to get it the way I wanted them. We are doing one skimmer on each end as suggested, and I am adding a 5th return on the tanning ledge in hopes that it will help to "sweep" debris out into the main part of the pool so the robot can get to it.
 

bill3956

Gold Supporter
Feb 23, 2020
14
St Simons Island GA
Our tanning ledge is about 18 inches deep and while we have not found any chairs for sitting, this depth has been great to just sit in water. Also has made a great kiddie pool for our neighbor’s 18 month old.

Also put in an umbrella hole in tanning ledge. We have no trees and get sun all day. Gives you a place out of the sun but still in the water.

Don’t have a bubbler, so maybe others can comment on whether they are worth the expense.

Under the spa section, you have upgrades of a pump and cartridge filter. Is that in addition to the pump and filter for pool? If so, we have roughly the same design (only 4 jets) and 6 foot, but for our 18x36 pool, the Pentair VSP and 420 cartridge filter more than can handle both pool and spa. Maybe there is something in your design that requires another pump and filter, but I don’t see the need.
 

K-Row

Member
Does anyone have any experience with requesting a variance in regards to a setback? What type of documentation did you need? I've filled out the variance form but I'm not sure what all to include since I haven't even signed a contract with a pool company yet.

Our property line cuts through our backyard at an odd angle. We have HOA approval to build a fence where you would think our property actually ends since it is unused land for them and we have been maintaining it for 11 years. The current set back requirements puts the pool design too close. Deck is supposed to be 5 feet away from the rear setback and pool is supposed to be 10 feet away. I'm hoping to get this eliminated since we could still build the pool and keep within the spirit of setback requirement since we have so much space behind our property line.

I've attached a pic that explains things a little better. Any thoughts/comments/experiences are much appreciated!

mock up.jpg
 

Jimrahbe

Mod Squad
TFP Expert
LifeTime Supporter
Jul 7, 2014
19,126
Bedford, TX
K,

I had to get a variance to add a 3rd garage... It took a few months to do, but was pretty easy. I turned in the paper work and the city had to contact everyone in the surrounding houses and notify them of my request.. Then I had to go before the city counsel and explain my case.. And then anyone with a objection had a chance to talk.. About a week later it was granted.

I suspect that each city is somewhat different.. I have found the planning people pretty easy to work with.. I'd just go down and talk with them in person and ask them what they need. I suspect that they will be glad to walk you through it.

Thanks,

Jim R.
 

gingrbredman

Well-known member
Jun 10, 2020
113
Chicagoland
I wanted to have the patio around my upcoming pool extend 1 foot into the back easement so I needed to apply for a variance. My city wanted a topographical/drainage/grading survey be done before the approved it. The big thing around me now is making sure water flows in the proper direction, and not changing the existing grading that was put in place. Luckily, my PB knew this was going to be needed, and this was included in the "permits" line item in our contract. A lot of cities around my require this survey just for the pool permit. My city was a pain, and after a lot of conversations and requirements needed, we gave up on the idea of the 1 foot and planned to keep it out of the easement.

In your situation, if you do not have a contract signed, you could still have a survey completed if this was required, just based on the renderings you have, and a survey company. But as Jim pointed out, all cities are probably different, and even more different across states. Give them a call or head down to the planning or building department and see what they need to even consider a variance before you spend any money on surveys.
 
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K-Row

Member
I talked to the city planner and he told me that a variance would not be granted and that I shouldn't waste my time/money. You could tell he was expecting me to attack him and he was very relieved when I completely understood lol. Apparently he is used to getting a lot of hateful comments!

We are now exploring a property line adjustment. The HOA is on board and has no objections. The land I'm asking for is useless to them and also something that I have been maintaining for 11 years. Neither of us has any experience in this so I will be talking to a real estate attorney asap to see if it is even possible. If anyone has experience with this then please chime in. I'll update this thread with what I find out in case anyone in the future attempts the same thing.