First Pool, Help a Noobie with Equipment

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eastcoastpoolfan said:
Called local pool supply store listed on Hayward site and two issues came up:
1. They advised strongly against a cartridge filter saying it would be more maintenance than a sand filter. I thought getting the large 525 cartridge would be paired well with the large Tristar VS pump but she said 100% get sand...
2. They had little experience with Hayward automation...but can order either the Prologic or Omnilogic. If I want to use all Hayward, and pair the Tristar pump, the 140K heat pump, SWG, and LED lights which one would be best? Don't have spa or fancy backyard lighting.

Thanks all
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Cant speak to Hayward but I have a Pentair cartridge filter sized about 100 square feet over my actual pool and I only have to clean the filter like 3 times a year at most. I actually bought a second set of filters so I just swap them out then clean the dirty ones at my leisure. Maybe sand is easier I'm not sure but I wouldn't call cartridge a lot of work.

One thing I have found as I am on my second pool build is everyone in the industry seems to have an opinion and most contradict each other lol.
 
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eastcoastpoolfan said:
Called local pool supply store listed on Hayward site and two issues came up:
1. They advised strongly against a cartridge filter saying it would be more maintenance than a sand filter. I thought getting the large 525 cartridge would be paired well with the large Tristar VS pump but she said 100% get sand...
2. They had little experience with Hayward automation...but can order either the Prologic or Omnilogic. If I want to use all Hayward, and pair the Tristar pump, the 140K heat pump, SWG, and LED lights which one would be best? Don't have spa or fancy backyard lighting.

Thanks all
Click to expand...
I would be wary of sticking to one brand for everything. Get the best product for the task at hand. For instance, I went raypak for the heater, intermatic for some basic automation, circu pool for SWG, Pentair for pump and filter. Each piece of equipment really works independently of each other. Recommend taking a look at the Pool Filter Comparison. Check local code as this may dictate what you can actually use. I have used Sand and DE for years, my opinion is that DE is about the best at producing a crystal clear pool. I have switch to Perlite alternatives and getting the same results. With the remodel I’be decided to go Quad DE, it’s a cartridge system with DE material for filtering, I oversized it on purpose to increase maintenance window. Will go Perlite again as it’s less of a health hazard. As for cleaning, dealers may over exaggerate this, so take their comments with grain of salt. Search for Prologic vs Omnilogic in TFP search, there is a thread on this.

Forgot to add, as for your heating needs, RayPak has a handy calculator, recommend giving this a try to help guide the decision making. This will tell you how long it will take to heat the pool, cost, and take into account other factors, whatever you do, get a solar blanket.
 
eastcoastpoolfan said:
Thank you both-for automation, do you need all same brand? Is automation not as popular as I would suspect? Basically wanting an easy way to maintain SWG, heat pump and lights. Maybe I am overthinking the automation piece.
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Simple automaton is basically just timers, so most equipment works fine. Newer "communication" based automation will usually work with multiple brands, but you will need to check compatability charts on the automation hub to be sure. I believe the omnihub will work with most vs pumps and most heaters on the market but will only control (adjust generation percent) hayward swg systems.
 
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eastcoastpoolfan said:
Thank you both-for automation, do you need all same brand? Is automation not as popular as I would suspect? Basically wanting an easy way to maintain SWG, heat pump and lights. Maybe I am overthinking the automation piece.
Click to expand...
Pump and SWG work best when from the same company as the automation. Heaters and filters are a commodity and work with any automation. Fancy color LED light controls also need to be matched with the automation fromt he same company.
 
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eastcoastpoolfan said:
Thank you both-for automation, do you need all same brand? Is automation not as popular as I would suspect? Basically wanting an easy way to maintain SWG, heat pump and lights. Maybe I am overthinking the automation piece.
Click to expand...
Outline your automation needs then find the parts to make it work. The CompuPool SWG has a flow switch so to speak, it can detect when the pump is running or not. So it will produce chlorine when the pump runs. So you do some maths, figure out your chlorine load, then look at how much the SWG produces and that will determine how long to run the pump for. Most SWG controllers you can set the generation level, just leave it on 24/7 and let it do its thing. This means all you have to do is get your pump on a timer. This can either be a built in timer on the pump or simply Intermatic analog or digital timer. Both give you fireman switch option to control the heater. You may over spend by a lot to do very simply things. Now if you getting into remote controlling with in the property or offsite controlling and you want monitoring, temp, chemical levels and you going to install control valves to flip between spa and pool, then it’s probably worth spending the extra $$ to make that all work from your iPad. I never plan to do remote anything or want to control the temp from some remote location on the planet. I am going very old school. Turn heater on Friday morning to get the pool up to temp for weekend enjoyment, shutdown on Sunday, I can do all this through the fireman switch. Heater has built in flow switch so it will fire up when there is water flow. I need the chlorinator to run so I got one that Also detects flow and will turn on when the pump is on. I want the pool light on a schedule so I went with the Intermatic digital switch allowing me to schedule the fireman switch for Friday and pool lights. I connect the SWG to it because, why not. Really, all the automation is happening on the pump, Pentair 011056, from here I can schedule when to turn on and what flow rate to maintain that will satisfy the heater and SWG. The heater has a minimum 40 GPM to operate but less then 125 GPM. So I set the pump to 50 GPM for 8 ish hours a day. All of this has a cascading affect. Fireman switch only activates on Friday and turns off on Sunday afternoon So the heater will never turn on regardless of flow rate. This saved me about $800 in Crud I don’t need and the associated headache programming it all, multiple wiring jobs, multiple conduits to separate out low voltage and high voltage to meet code. Hopefully all makes sense.
 
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Completely agree with SpongeBob here in that the first thing you need to do is figure out what you want to automate. If it really is as simple as "run the pump at this time for this long" then you should be good with just a VS pump as those usually have scheduling capabilities by themselves and pretty much all SWG's and heaters have flow switches. Simple is best when the needs are simple as well. Add a fancy pool light that comes with a remote and bam, you are golden.

In the interest of giving you as much information as possible to help you make you decision, here are the key benefits I've found by having an automation system.
  • Easier Scheduling for better VS pump efficiency. The low RPM required to keep your pool clean under normal circumstances may be too low for the SWG and will definitely be too low for the heater. There are also times you will want to ramp up the RPM in your default schedule (pollen season!) or just need to temporarily alter a schedule. While this can all be done on the VS pump itself, it is much easier to create complex schedules from your phone.

  • Heating Without A Schedule. I only run my gas heater when I know people will be swimming. Having a "push button, get heat" on the automation control panel (it turns on the heater and ensure the VS pump is at sufficient RPM) is huge for the WAF (wife acceptance factor). Again, this can also be done from the pad itself, but sometimes people just want an "easy" button.

  • Remote Gas Heating. It's also been great to be able to turn on the heater an hour before we get home so the pool is ready for us.

  • One Off things. VS pumps usually have a "hit button, temporarily bypass schedule" option. This is great for most things, but can be limiting if you are relying on flow switches to handle the on/off of SWG and heater. While not the make-or-break factor by any means, it is really nice to be able to tell your pool to "go do this for an hour" without worrying about how it will affect other components or schedules.

  • Convenience. I have a set of jets in a seating area. We figured "oh, just get up and walk over to the pool pad" to turn those on or off or change the VS speed to make the jets stronger or weaker. This was a fine idea until you are actually sitting in the pool with a margharita in hand and say "man, I really wish this jet was on/off/stronger/weaker" at which point you start offering your kids $5 to go turn the nobs and press the buttons. After a few seasons of this, you've pretty much bought an automation system.
Anyway, everyone has different views on these things so take it all with a grain of salt. Good luck!
 
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GaryParr said:
Completely agree with SpongeBob here in that the first thing you need to do is figure out what you want to automate. If it really is as simple as "run the pump at this time for this long" then you should be good with just a VS pump as those usually have scheduling capabilities by themselves and pretty much all SWG's and heaters have flow switches. Simple is best when the needs are simple as well. Add a fancy pool light that comes with a remote and bam, you are golden.

In the interest of giving you as much information as possible to help you make you decision, here are the key benefits I've found by having an automation system.
  • Easier Scheduling for better VS pump efficiency. The low RPM required to keep your pool clean under normal circumstances may be too low for the SWG and will definitely be too low for the heater. There are also times you will want to ramp up the RPM in your default schedule (pollen season!) or just need to temporarily alter a schedule. While this can all be done on the VS pump itself, it is much easier to create complex schedules from your phone.

  • Heating Without A Schedule. I only run my gas heater when I know people will be swimming. Having a "push button, get heat" on the automation control panel (it turns on the heater and ensure the VS pump is at sufficient RPM) is huge for the WAF (wife acceptance factor). Again, this can also be done from the pad itself, but sometimes people just want an "easy" button.

  • Remote Gas Heating. It's also been great to be able to turn on the heater an hour before we get home so the pool is ready for us.

  • One Off things. VS pumps usually have a "hit button, temporarily bypass schedule" option. This is great for most things, but can be limiting if you are relying on flow switches to handle the on/off of SWG and heater. While not the make-or-break factor by any means, it is really nice to be able to tell your pool to "go do this for an hour" without worrying about how it will affect other components or schedules.

  • Convenience. I have a set of jets in a seating area. We figured "oh, just get up and walk over to the pool pad" to turn those on or off or change the VS speed to make the jets stronger or weaker. This was a fine idea until you are actually sitting in the pool with a margharita in hand and say "man, I really wish this jet was on/off/stronger/weaker" at which point you start offering your kids $5 to go turn the nobs and press the buttons. After a few seasons of this, you've pretty much bought an automation system.
Anyway, everyone has different views on these things so take it all with a grain of salt. Good luck!
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My WAF is, WhatsApp me with pool instructions, I’m the automation. She seems to find that the best option. :)
 
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eastcoastpoolfan said:
Quick drain question...I asked for channel drains to avoid having something to trip over but this is what got installed...are these channel drains and any issue? Thanks
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No, those are not channel drains.

How deep is that area?
 
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eastcoastpoolfan said:
I didn't think so either. 6 feet. So may not be a huge deal to bump feet into them except for a few guests?
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I doubt they will be a problem for anyone other then your pool cleaner.
 
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eastcoastpoolfan said:
Question about lighting-looking at the Hayward LED color logic 4 light. SS or plastic? Is one light enough on side wall (38 x 18') or more?
Thanks!
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Probably not.

Pentair guideline is to aim for 4 lumens per square foot of pool surface. For example, if the pool is 500 sq-ft then you need 500x4=2000 lumens. This would be 4 MicroBrites or 2 IntelliBrite rgb.

Inyo Pools also has a good blog on How Many Lights Do I Need For My Pool? with a table summarizing the coverage of the different Pentair lights.

Jandy has an excellent LED Lighting Design Guide.
 
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We have a 30' long pool with three microbrites installed and think that is the right amount. For a 38' long pool, would say one is just not gonna cut it, probably 4 is the right number.
 
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