Filling New Pool Q's

[mgtfp]

Yep...made a brick with the powder but hooked into it and got it all out of the skimmer sock I put it in.

Learning by doing

Let's see if FC holds now. If not, then you can at least safely slam now with CYA in the water.

 

[RookiePick]

Ran the pump overnight and woke to a clearer pool.

FC - 3ppm
CC - 0ppm
CYA - 40ppm (consistently lost the dot between the 30 and 40 lines)
PH - still out of range 7.8+

Added LC for a 5ppm target and will see what happens over the course of the day.

I think I'm in a holding pattern now until handover and the junk in the pool is physically removed. The sand on the bottom seems to have a tinge of green for sure.

 

[RookiePick]

5 Hours after bleach addition
FC - 4.5 (9 drops)
4 hours later (sundown)
FC - 4.5 (9 drops)

Big difference in FC use with CYA in the pool!

Will be up before sun-up. Will see what happens overnight.

 

[mgtfp]

Getting there

 

[RookiePick]

Big green pool issue developed today



Will have to see how the OCLT goes.

 

[mgtfp]

Just to confirm, this is with white pool lights, not green ones?

Looks like you have metals in the pool. Metals come out of solution when pH and FC are high.

Are you using bore water to fill the pool?

 

[RookiePick]

Sorry mate, it was a (bad) joke.

The sparky came and hardwired everything yesterday. It's the pool lighting set to green

 

[mgtfp]

You got me there. I was thinking that it was just the light. But then I thought, maybe these guys in Perth use bore water to fill their pools which could contain iron or copper, and water turning green from metals can look pretty similar to your picture. Clear vibrant green rather than the cloudy green from algae.

Well played

 

[Newdude]

*sparky.

 

[RookiePick]

*sparky.

Oops! We kinda nickname/abbreviate everything down here 😂

 

[mgtfp]

*sparky.

Official job title. Usually comes after the Chippy and the Bricky finished the structural works.

The mess all of them left behind will be picked up by the Garbo.

Then you'll need the Pestie to make sure none of those nuclear Aussie critters found their way inside before you move in.

It's a fine art to name all our Tradies correctly.

 

[RookiePick]

I have ready access to boric acid.

I think I will run one swimming season without, so I can get a baseline of pool behaviour and develop my "skillset" but definitely keen to explore this addition to pool chemistry. Seems really beneficial with SWG and our high pH scheme water.

Does anyone know if we can access something like the Taylor Borate test strip here in Oz?

 

[mgtfp]

You just have to buy some Mannitol from eBay:

50g Food Grade Pure Mannitol Powder - E421 Sweetener | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for 50g Food Grade Pure Mannitol Powder - E421 Sweetener at the best online prices at eBay!

www.ebay.com.au

... and a BTB pH-Indicator from Bunnings (pond section, not pool chemical section):

AQUAPRO 50ml Pond pH Test Kit

Find AQUAPRO 50ml Pond pH Test Kit at Bunnings. Visit your local store for the widest range of products.

www.bunnings.com.au

... and follow the instructions from the link given for the mannitol test in the Borates Wiki article:

Borates in pool - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

All the other required reagents are in your Clear Choice Labs kit.

Much better than the test strips. They seem to work OKish when fresh, but turn useless pretty quickly.

 

[RookiePick]

Pool cleaned and handed over. 120kg of salt in the process of dissolving. Looks like this was a by rote addition to me but I suspect we will end up near enough and the SWG has a wide operational range..

Current plan is to run a full suite of tests after the salt has dissolved - I presume this should be good once I can't see any salt in the water ~approx 24 hours? I'll post my results up and see if anyone thinks any action needs to be taken. I feel like pH will still be off my chart as it doesn't sound like any remedial action was taken today. The pH controller has been plumbed in and hooked up but I think I will turn it off in these early stages and try and get a feel for the native acid demand.

I'm going to try and leave CYA at 30/40ppm for now, given it's winter and in case the need to run a SLAM appears. Things seem pretty good on that front atm - I guess I was kinda slamming by keeping FC at 2-3ppm without CYA the past few weeks.

I have spa jets in the pool that need to be turned on manually at the valve. Any thought on how often and for how long I should operate this part of the pool plumbing to avoid any nasty surprises from coming to life. Pool tech suggested I could possibly open that valve a crack and let a small amount of water run through there all the time. I'm not sure how practical that would be?

 

[mgtfp]

120kg of salt should increase salt level by about 3300ppm. I'd give it about 2 days to dissolve, then test and top up to get a bit over 4000 I'd say.

CYA 30/40 is fine for now.

I have a similar setup with the spa. I just keep the spa overflow running the whole time, otherwise I'd just forget about it without automation. Only downside is potential higher aeration from the overflow resulting in faster pH rise. In my case the effect doesn't seem to be huge, waterflow over the edge looks quite laminar as long as the pump is not too fast and the water level not too low (higher drop from spa to pool surface), and around pH 7.8-7.9 it is quite stable. You can turn the valve a bit down to reduce the flow and see how you go.

 

[RookiePick]

120kg of salt should increase salt level by about 3300ppm. I'd give it about 2 days to dissolve, then test and top up to get a bit over 4000 I'd say.

CYA 30/40 is fine for now.

I have a similar setup with the spa. I just keep the spa overflow running the whole time, otherwise I'd just forget about it without automation. Only downside is potential higher aeration from the overflow resulting in faster pH rise. In my case the effect doesn't seem to be huge, waterflow over the edge looks quite laminar as long as the pump is not too fast and the water level not too low (higher drop from spa to pool surface), and around pH 7.8-7.9 it is quite stable. You can turn the valve a bit down to reduce the flow and see how you go.

I'll have a play tomorrow and see what's what. I think the slightly cracked valve might work out pretty good on reflection. I think at low speed there is no worry about any aeration driving up pH. I want to start playing with how slow I can run the VS pump too and keep the SWG happy.

I'll take a look at running the testing tomorrow evening or Sunday. Gave the pool a good brush this evening and raised a lot of salt from the floor that still needs to go into solution.

 

[RookiePick]

Interesting day.
Ran a full set of numbers at midday
FC 4.0
CC 0.0
pH 7.8+
TA 100
CH 125
CYA - ran out of test liquid before the 30ppm line and could just see the dot on quick glance. It was overcast today vs bright last test though and not sure which way that influences the test?
Salt 2600

Gave the pool a good brush and tried the SWG a couple of hours later and got low salt error. Gave the pool another brush and tried again a couple of hours later and the SWG played ball.

Activated the acid doser and put in 300mL. Pool math number was 360mL to change from 7.8 to 7.6 for my concentration of MA. I just want to try and nudge down to being on the scale so I can see how the pool wants to behave on that front. I suspect actual pH of the pool is more in the order of 8.2 based on our tap water pH but I think it's better practice to try and sneak up on it than make a big MA addition all at once.

Played with the valve to the spa jets. I think having that valve slightly cracked all the time is going to work well.

Might throw the robot in tomorrow and hopefully that gets any last bits of salt into solution and I'll retest salt late in the day.

Any ideas on being short on the CYA test liquid? Operator error or quirk of the CCL kit? I added around 100mL to the pool prior to the handover clean and that went to waste so I expected a reduced CYA number. Any guesses on how much I should look to add now? I'm thinking aim to add 5ppm and retest after the appropriate timeframe. Another one to sneak up on now I have added some to the pool.

SWG set to add 1.5ppm per day by pool math. Hopefully get a read on that with some testing pre-start and post shut down tomorrow.

TA definitely had a response to the CYA addition IMO. Any other idea why this may have moved 20ppm (beyond rookie making screw up in his procedures 😂)

 

[mgtfp]

TA definitely had a response to the CYA addition IMO. Any other idea why this may have moved 20ppm (beyond rookie making screw up in his procedures 😂)

Adding CYA shouldn't change Total Alkalinity, you are replacing Carbonate-Alkalinity 1:1 with CYA-Alkalinity. I suspect a combination of test error and TA really rising, e.g. due to adding more fill water (it's a good idea to test TA and CH of your fill water to get an idea how it will impact those parameters when you'll keep replacing evaporation losses with fill water).

Any ideas on being short on the CYA test liquid?

This can happen with the CCL test, when CYA is low and you need a lot of reagent. Test is setup under the assumption that CYA is usually higher, rather than always mixing more reagent/water (and wasting reagent when you need only half for the test). CCL uses 5ml water + 5ml reagent, whereas in the original Taylor test it's 7ml water + 7ml reagent, which covers you for lower CYA, but is a bit more wasteful when CYA is higher.

If you know you need more you can just just use a slightly higher sample volume and mis it 1:1 with the reagent. You could for example measure 7ml of water with a syringe and transfer it into the CYA mixing tube and make a line with a permanent marker on the tube at the meniscus level. Then add another 7ml into the tube and make another line. Then you have markings on your tube for slightly higher water sample and reagent volumes which should cover you for tests when CYA is a bit lower.

CYA testing is a bit fiddly and takes time getting used to. I ordered a large bottle of the original Taylor CYA reagent (R-0013) on Amazon, like that one:

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[EDIT: No idea why the link is showing as "Server Busy". It links as intended to "h t t p s://www.amazon.com.au/TAYLOR-TECHNOLOGIES-R-0013-CYANURIC-ACID/dp/B003VZORS2" (I added a few spaces so that the URL text doesn't get resolved into another "Server Busy")].

Like that you can run as many tests as you want and don't have to be stingy with the reagent. This particular reagent lasts for ages when stored cool and dark, like in a cupboard. If you have Amazon Prime, you even get free international delivery on that one from the US. If you don't have Prime, get a free trial membership and cancel it once the order is done.

 

[RookiePick]

Morning test
FC 4.0
pH 7.8+
Added 360mL MA 14.5%

Ran Robot. Gee...moves some water. Got a gutful of sand and left a bit behind in the deep end. Will try and give it a lap a day and get on top of the sand load. Surprising amount of fine organic bits and pieces that aren't really perceivable from looking at the pool.

Evening test
FC 4.0 - held up nicely on my target SWG reading. Will continue to monitor.
pH 7.8+
Salt 3600ppm

Added 360mL MA 14.5%.

Threw the pool thermometer in last night, running around mid 16's. Giving CSI value around -0.43. Should be fine for fibreglass pool? Pulling my pH down will only drive me further into the negative (-0.63 if I move pH to 7.6). Looks like this number is largely being driven by my low CH. Just leave well enough alone for now?

 

[mgtfp]

Good work, you're getting there.

Yes, negative CSI is no concern in a fibreglass pool (as long as there is no waterline tile with grout). I am not too familiar with fibreglass, there seem to be some opinions that a minimum CH of something like 200 might be good. Maybe @Texas Splash can enlighten us here if your 125ppm CH should be raised to 200 or 250.