Fighting constant high PH

dw9000

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2014
200
NW Ohio
Seems like every 5-7 days my PH is going above 8.0,, the red is at or above the highest red mark on my TF-100 ph test tube.
I add the appropriate amount of muratic acid (according to pool school),, check it the next day and its down around 7.2-7.4. I have 3 returns that I had pointed a bit high, and I adjusted those a few weeks ago so there is no more bubbling at the return outlet, just a bit of a swirl at the top of the water line.
I do have an overpowered 1.5hp pump, that I was hoping to not have to replace. I might just have too much water going through the returns? If I lean up against the returns, its pretty powerful.

I just checked my ph and its 8.0+ plus again. I can control my returns via jandy valve, should I turn them down or do you think something else is at issue here?

My chlorine, cya and other readings are all within check,, just the PH keeps going up.
 

JoyfulNoise

TFP Expert
Platinum Supporter
May 23, 2015
17,378
Tucson, AZ
That's too high then. Try dropping it to below 80ppm (maybe try 70ppm). Then, do a very careful experiment after you drop TA to 70ppm - drop the pH to 7.4 and then everyday measure the pH until it gets to 8.0. Let's see what your acid demand looks like after doing that.
 

dw9000

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2014
200
NW Ohio
That's too high then. Try dropping it to below 80ppm (maybe try 70ppm). Then, do a very careful experiment after you drop TA to 70ppm - drop the pH to 7.4 and then everyday measure the pH until it gets to 8.0. Let's see what your acid demand looks like after doing that.
Ok, so according to pool school, the only way I see to drop TA is lowering PH to 7.0-7.2 using acid. Wait a day, recheck PH & TA then. Then aerate to get PH back up to 7.5 (or so). Is this what you are recommending I do?
 

JoyfulNoise

TFP Expert
Platinum Supporter
May 23, 2015
17,378
Tucson, AZ
No need to wait a day between dropping th pH and aerating. Drop the pH to 7.0-7.2 using Pool Math with your current TA value and then measure your new pH and TA after about an hour or so. Then aerate until the pH cones up to 7.6 and repeat the process. For most average sized pools, the addition of acid to drop the pH usually consumes about 10ppm TA. So you'll likely need a few acid/aeration cycles.
 

dw9000

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2014
200
NW Ohio
No need to wait a day between dropping th pH and aerating. Drop the pH to 7.0-7.2 using Pool Math with your current TA value and then measure your new pH and TA after about an hour or so. Then aerate until the pH cones up to 7.6 and repeat the process. For most average sized pools, the addition of acid to drop the pH usually consumes about 10ppm TA. So you'll likely need a few acid/aeration cycles.
Ok, I'll give it a shot.
I had planned on aerating with my return jets, pointing them upwards. Is there something else that would work?
 

tim5055

Mod Squad
TFP Expert
LifeTime Supporter
May 11, 2014
11,050
Franklin, NC
Some people build fountains on one or more of their return jets. The other option you have is just give it time. Every time your pH naturally rises, hit it with acid to bring it down to 7.0-7.2. Then wait, when the pH naturally rises to 7.8, hit it again with acid. The TA will slowly come down to the point the pH will stabilize. My pool actually likes the TA down in the 50-60 range.
 

JoyfulNoise

TFP Expert
Platinum Supporter
May 23, 2015
17,378
Tucson, AZ
Some people build fountains on one or more of their return jets. The other option you have is just give it time. Every time your pH naturally rises, hit it with acid to bring it down to 7.0-7.2. Then wait, when the pH naturally rises to 7.8, hit it again with acid. The TA will slowly come down to the point the pH will stabilize. My pool actually likes the TA down in the 50-60 range.
Tim,

Sometimes waiting until you hit 7.8 before lowering again is counter-productive especially if the fill water has high TA and evaporation rates are high. The rise in pH is not linear between 7.2 and 7.8. It's very fast from 7.2 to about 7.5 (a few days) and then it begins to stall between 7.6 and 7.8 and come sometimes take a week or more to fully rise in that range particularly when yo start to reach your target TA value. So cycling the acid addition/aeration between 7.2 and 7.6 works a little faster and that is why I wrote it that way in my post.

Matt
 

dw9000

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2014
200
NW Ohio
OK thanks both of you,, I don't think I've ever had the PH to 7.0, so I added a little more acid as it was only 7.2 a few minutes ago. I'll go out and check in 45 minutes and start aerating (assuming it hits 7.0). I'll check it later tonight, once it hits 7.8,, I'll add more acid,, and repeat until TA gets to 60 or so.
 

Patrick_B

TFP Expert
LifeTime Supporter
Jun 7, 2011
15,004
Midland TX
Yes, you are just like many of us unfortunately. I have high TA/pH fill water and its just a battle we will have forever. It will slow much more once you use th advice given and get your pool TA down. TA 70 is my absolute high ceiling but my high Calcium level permits me to take mine even lower, which I try to do as a regular maintenance routine.
 

dw9000

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2014
200
NW Ohio
Well I've tried the lower PH,, aerate,, add more PH,, aerate,, but my TA stays at about 100. I've been lowering the PH to about 7.0,, then aerate for about 6-8 hrs,, the PH gets up around 7.6 and I hit it with more muratic acid, taking it back down to 7.0,, then repeat the aerate. I've done this 3 times so far.
I did add about 2 inches of water, so that might have disrupted things (increased TA with the new water?).
 

Catanzaro

Platinum Supporter
TFP Guide
Jul 30, 2014
3,470
Monmouth County, New Jersey
TA looks good, I just tested it 90-100.
My PH constantly drifted up and every 4 days I had to lower from 7.8 to around 7.4. The TA was at 130 (at it's peak). Even at 90, I had to lower the TA. Not until the TA reached 70, did the PH stabilize. My pool found the perfect combination. My pool had to do with rotating heads that break the surface water. I took advantage of all the snow and rain water this winter, which lowered my TA, etc.

Good luck and keep us posted!
 

dw9000

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2014
200
NW Ohio
FInally,, tested TA this morning twice - down around 70ppm. PH at 7.2,, FC about 4,, I think my pool is as balanced as it's ever been and good thing its suppose to be 90+ and high humidity today and tomorrow.
 

JoyfulNoise

TFP Expert
Platinum Supporter
May 23, 2015
17,378
Tucson, AZ
FInally,, tested TA this morning twice - down around 70ppm. PH at 7.2,, FC about 4,, I think my pool is as balanced as it's ever been and good thing its suppose to be 90+ and high humidity today and tomorrow.
Ok. Now try to test your pH daily or every other day. The point is to see how long it takes to get to a pH above 7.8. The initial rise from 7.2 to 7.5 will probably be quick (a few days). But the rise between 7.6 and 7.8 should be slower.
 

Cinic

Silver Supporter
Jul 24, 2015
194
Tempe, AZ
I'm another person whose pool's pH is much more stable with a TA around 50 or 60. I also had to learn to not try to keep it at 7.5. It stays between 7.6 & 7.8 for a long time. I have high TA fill water so it's a constant battle during the summer here.
 

Patrick_B

TFP Expert
LifeTime Supporter
Jun 7, 2011
15,004
Midland TX
This takes a lot of time sometimes. It takes me at least a couple of weeks of frequent additions to get mine from 90s-100s down to 50-60 ranges.