Equipment suggestions

[Jctaylor45]

Hi Everyone,
I have been browsing the forum for some time and have learned a lot. I hoping to get some feedback on the equipment setup I am thinking about for my to be built 14,000 gallon pool. How does this setup look? Any suggestion?

IC40 SWG
Pentair Superflo VS 1.5hp
CCP320 filter
Max-E-Therm 250 heater
Intellitouch control

thanks in advance!

 

[Jimrahbe]

45,

The first problem that I see is that the IntelliTouch cannot control the SuperFlo VS..

Pentair automation system are designed to control the 3 HP IntelliFlo style pumps using an RS-485 serial cable.. The SuperFlo VS has no RS-485 port.

The IntelliTouch is designed for more complex pools, so I would suggest an EasyTouch or the new IntelliCenter.. Either one would work.

Did you pick the IntelliTouch for a specific reason??

I love saltwater pools, so the IC40 makes sense, if you are going to have Pentair automation.. Make sure whatever Pentair automation you get, comes with the SWCG power supply inside the main panel and not an external power supply. They sell a package.. Automation with internal power supply and IC40 cell..

Is this a Pool and Spa set up or Pool only??

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Jctaylor45]

Thanks for the feedback Jim. I was actually thinking of nixing the automation all together as I don’t think I would really use it. I am more of a set it and forget it type of guy and from what I have read I was thinking the programming on the superflo might suffice, but interested if there is something I might be missing.

I should have mentioned, only pool, no spa.

 

[rlab]

The automation *is* what let's you set it and forget it The main reason you need automation in a setup like yours is for flow speed control. It let's you set a very low normal flow speed (uses minimal electricity), and then have the flow speed automatically increase in response to events like the heater switching on. It also gives you the potential for more fine grained control and scheduling of the SWG.

The intellitouch is a very high end controller for your setup however. As Jim said something like the Easytouch would be more appropriate (and much cheaper). I have a similar pool only setup to yours, and am 100% glad I went with an Easytouch. I got one with a wired indoor controller (again, very cheap), and it takes away so much of the hastle of monitoring and controlling the pool.

Also fwiw the Intelliflo is a quieter and more efficient pump than the Superflo.

 

[Jctaylor45]

That makes sense. Alright, how about this for an update equipment list?

EasyTouch 4PSC-IC40 - Single Body (SCG integration & IC40 cell)
Pentair Superflo VS 1.5hp
CCP320 filter
Max-E-Therm 250 heater

 

[rlab]

To be clear you need an Intelliflo pump for automation. The superflo can't easily connect to automation systems (it's possible, but needs a bunch of custom relays and wiring kits, and is very bare bones control compared to the Intelliflo).

Otherwise, looks like a good setup.

 

[Jctaylor45]

Do you think it’s worth swapping out the superflo for the intelliflo? My initial though was the intelliflo was overkill for a 14k gallon pool. Aside from the automation, are there other benefits I’d be gaining from the intelliflo for a simple small pool setup like mine? Would you still recommend the easy touch at that point?

 

[Jimrahbe]

45,

If you had a pool with a spa, then in my mind automation would be very important..

With only a pool, like me, automation is nice to have but not required..

Are you going to have any water features?

Do you plan to have solar?

There is no such thing as "overkill" when talking about VS pumps... Most people only hear 3 HP and think that is just too big for my little pool. Well it is just not true.. Think of a VS pump as a variable Horse Power pump, you only use the amount of HP that you need. The bigger the pump, the slower it can run and still move the same amount of water.

I run my IntelliFlo 24/7 and it costs me less than $20 bucks a month..

Without automation, the SuperFlo VS will work fine.

If you are not going to have a spa, what is the heater going to do? If you plan to heat the pool, then I think your heater may be too small.. That said, I live in Texas and I don't really need a heater..

Maybe we can get one of our heater guys to chime in...

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Jctaylor45]

Your point on the 3HP pump is well taken. I guess I was mostly thinking i could save a couple bucks upfront if I didn’t need the intelliflo compared to the superflo given the size of the pool.

The plan for the pool is very simple. No spa, no water features, no solar. Just heater, swc, pump and filter. That’s about it. If I were to go with the intelliflo pump, given my setup, would you still recommend the easy touch? Or just stick with the superflo and skip the automation? I guess I’m just not sure what I am automating with such a simple setup. Can’t I just align the timer for the swc and pumps and turn on the heat when I need it? Let me know if I’m missing something.

The reason for the heater is I live in Massachusetts so I need the heater to extend the pool season. There is not much difference between the 250k btu heater and the 333k btu, so curious if anyone thinks the 250k btu is not enough

 

[Jimrahbe]

45,

I love my automation system.. but that me... I do not "need" an automation system, but you would have to rip it out of my cold dead hands..

You also do not "need" an automation system.. So don't let us talk you into something you don't need..

A timer for the SWCG will work.. The SuperFlo VS will work...

My initial response was based upon your equipment list, which would not work well together..

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Jctaylor45]

Jim, I appreciate your feedback. It’s definitely one of those things where you don’t know what you don’t know.

it sounds like your setup is similar to what I am planning. What are the automation features you can’t live without that can’t be achieved through simple timers?

 

[Jimrahbe]

45,

Nothing can't be done manually.. But.. As I sit here at my PC..

I can change my pump speed by pushing an icon
I can adjust the output of my SWCG by pushing an icon
I can see where my salt level is on the low side, so I know I need to pic some up tomorrow
I don't have to worry if the timer that is controlling my SWCG is out of sync with the actual time
I can tell the temperature of my pool water.. and in my case, the temperature of my standalone spa.
I can even control the temperature of my spa.
I can click an icon to turn on my fill valve to add water to my pool.
I can have my waterfall come on for 15 minutes each day to flush the lines
When the freeze control kicks in during what we call Winter,and you guys call Spring, it will turn on a small heater in my pool shed.
My landscape lights are tied into my automation system..
I can turn on my simple pool light. If I had color lights, the automation could a run light show
My equipment pad has a light over it.. Instead of walking out there in the dark to turn it on, I just push an icon

Every bit of that can be done manually...

But the main reason I love my automation system is that without it, I'd have almost nothing to say here on TFP.. I can't even spell Khemistry, and I have never had an algae bloom, so I do not have any first hand experience running a SLAM.. But every once in a while, I get to answer an automation question..

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Jctaylor45]

Thanks Jim. That certainly paints a picture. You’ve definitely given me something to think about. So I guess my decision point is really automation or not with the following setups. Any issues with the two setups below or will these play nice together?

automation
EasyTouch 4PSC-IC40 - Single Body (SCG integration & IC40 cell)
Pentair intelliflo VS
CCP320 filter
Max-E-Therm 250 heater

no automation
IC40 SWCG
Pentair Superflo VS 1.5hp
CCP320 filter
Max-E-Therm 250 heater

 

[Jimrahbe]

45,

Either will work fine it just depends on you..

But.. I did cheat a little.. I "forgot" to tell you that when I use my EasyTouch and press an icon to make something work, it is because I have an add on system called ScreenLogic2 that allows remote operation of the EasyTouch by using your PC, Phone, or Tablet.. It costs about $400 bucks, but makes programming and using the EasyTouch so much easier and fun.. So, that might push you one way or the other.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[rlab]

Just to chime in on the Intelliflo, I have one on a pool that's only 9,000 gallons. But what that means is that I can run it at very low speed and it uses barely any electricity, and is also pretty much silent.

However the 2 setups you have proposed are both fine, and even the "basic" superflo setup is a very high quality setup.

One other factor to consider is that over the longer term the Intelliflo setup will be cheaper to run... Both because of the more efficient intelliflo, and also because it will let you ramp pump speed up and down as the heater turns on/off. I don't believe the superflo will let you do that (@Jimrahbe might know?), which means you will have to run it at a higher base speed so it always has enough flow rate for the heater.

 

[Jctaylor45]

Thank you for the info. I think I have the pump and automation pieces figured out or at least I understand the trade offs at this point. Not sure which way I am leaning yet.

The other two questions I have are the filter and heater the right size for my pool and are there any other products I should be considering for heat and filtering? Any suggestions would be appreciated(14k gallon pool, no spa), two potential equipment options below.

automation
EasyTouch 4PSC-IC40 - Single Body (SCG integration & IC40 cell)
Pentair intelliflo VS
CCP320 filter
Max-E-Therm 250 heater

no automation
IC40 SWCG
Pentair Superflo VS 1.5hp
CCP320 filter
Max-E-Therm 250 heater

 

[rlab]

Cartridge filter is good for that size pool. You can never go too big with a cartridge filter.

Heaters are highly specific to your climate and desired swim season length. Whomever is supplying it should be able to provide you with some data to show it works for your case.