Results two years and two court dates later

[klanel]

It does not need to be done manually.

There is third mode that can be enabled - SPILLOVER mode.

• POOL mode suctions from the pool and returns to the pool
• SPA mode suctions from the spa and returns to the spa.
• SPILLOVER mode suctions from the pool and returns to the spa

I read a post here from some time ago where someone posted that when they enabled spillover, it gave them the option. I will run it by the builder.

And Tom, i like you but in this case I hope you are wrong But seriously, thanks to everyone for posting. This issue along with all the others has caused me stress.

The plumber set the LEDS on the pool and spa to all come on at the same time. Looks like they could have been set up independent of each other and he wired together. It's not the worst thing but seems like it should have been done differently.

 

[tommelton]

I re-read the OmniPL manual and it does say "valves" for spillover mode. So if your builder/plumber/programmer program it correct, and your limit cams in the actuator are set correctly - it should work.

 

[Turbo1Ton]

You have 2 valve actuators. One is on the suction line, the other is on the return line. I believe that is correct from what I am seeing.

From a Pentair perspective, not Hayward, here is what happens for the modes:

Pool - SUCTION valve actuator set to pull from pool main drain/skimmers, RETURN valve actuator set to return water through pool returns.
Spa - SUCTION valve actuator set to pull from spa main drain, RETURN valve actuator set to return water through spa jets
Spillover - SUCTION valve actuator set to pull from pool main drain/skimmers, RETURN valve actuator set to return water through spa jets.

The Spillover mode utilizes the action from both valves to create the spillover.

Now if you have the RETURN valve actuator set to where it stops with the SPA side partially open, then it will always allow flow through the spa, regardless of what mode you are in. I have mine set like this to just allow a small trickle of water flowing over my spa at all times.

I believe that Hayward and Jandy likely use similar programming for this. I don't know how else you would do it, or why you would try to complicate it.

It sounds as if the plumber set the stops to allow the RETURN valve actuator to never fully close the SPA side of the valve, allowing constant flow through the spa returns. This is why he is saying you have to have the spillover at all times.

Plumber added the actuator, programmed the control and says I will no longer be able to have the spillover AND pool features going at once.

He is correct here in that if you have the return actuator set to fully close both pool side and spa side, you will not be able to have the spillover and water features at the same time, since all water will be directed to either the spa or pool. From what it sounds like, right now you do have spillover and pool features going at once and you don't want that.

To fix this I think all you need to do is reset the return valve cams to allow the spa returns to close fully, when in pool mode, and enable the spillover mode in the automation.

--Jeff

 

[klanel]

if your builder/plumber/programmer program it correct, and your limit cams in the actuator are set correctly - it should work.

Builder just left and says his rep at Hayward told him they never use the spillover option. And his plumber/electrician seems to be the one he is relying on for expertise. I am hoping it will work but in the end, it may be on me to do it if I have to deal with his incompetent plumber.

From what it sounds like, right now you do have spillover and pool features going at once and you don't want that.

I want an option to use pool features while the spa is in spillover. He says one or the other but not both.

 

[ajw22]

.I want an option to use pool features while the spa is in spillover. He says one or the other but not both.

What do you mean by that?

When in SPILLOVER mode suction is from the pool skimmers and all return is to the spa.

What pool features do you want to use?

 

[Toxophilite]

Builder just left and says his rep at Hayward told him they never use the spillover option. And his plumber/electrician seems to be the one he is relying on for expertise. I am hoping it will work but in the end, it may be on me to do it if I have to deal with his incompetent plumber.

I want an option to use pool features while the spa is in spillover. He says one or the other but not both.

Your actuator valves set to Pool Mode:


Your actuator valves set to Spa Mode:



Your actuator valves set to Spillover Mode would be for the actuator vales to open "main drain/skimmer" and open "spa return". Spa suction and pool returns would be closed. All water would be sucked from pool and all water returned to spa.

These actions will be set using your control panel settings for a Pool Mode, Spa Mode, and Spillover Mode to control your actuators. Now, if you occasionally want to have some spillover during pool mode, and since you can't tell the actuators to not fully open and close when activated, you need a bypass that diverts some water to spa while in pool mode. On mine, it's a 3-way that can set from closed, no water during pool mode, to a little, to a lot. That's a manual,, separate, action independent of the above actuator and control panel selections.

 

[klanel]

What do you mean by that?

When in SPILLOVER mode suction is from the pool skimmers and all return is to the spa.

What pool features do you want to use?

Spillover may not be the correct term, but I mean some of the return water going over the spillway. And during this time, the returns on the pool still active to operate bubblers and deck jets.

In short, I want to be able to have full control of the three way valve that sends water to the returns. The pool, the spa or both at the same time.

Now, if you occasionally want to have some spillover during pool mode, and since you can't tell the actuators to not fully open and close when activated, you need a bypass that diverts some water to spa while in pool mode.

Some above are saying that this is an option with automation but you are saying that you can't control the actuators to this level which is what the builder and plumber are saying. As for adding a valve, the pipes may be too short for that. I do have the toggle switch I can operate manually but would like to automate it if I could.

 

[mknauss]

The actuated valve will not give you three positions. It will give you two. If you wish to have pool features with the Spillover, the Spillover must be set to run all the time.

 

[Toxophilite]

Spillover may not be the correct term, but I mean some of the return water going over the spillway. And during this time, the returns on the pool still active to operate bubblers and deck jets.

In short, I want to be able to have full control of the three way valve that sends water to the returns. The pool, the spa or both at the same time.

Some above are saying that this is an option with automation but you are saying that you can't control the actuators to this level which is what the builder and plumber are saying. As for adding a valve, the pipes may be too short for that. I do have the toggle switch I can operate manually but would like to automate it if I could

They are saying that the actuators, once activated, go from a full stop to a full stop. You change the stop position by mechanical means, and that will be the new stop position. They are saying you can't change the range of motion from stop to stop other than by mechanical settings with the valve. You cannot program to tell the actuator to stop at different positions. It only has 2 - full left and full right.

So, if you want to normally NOT have water over the spillway in pool mode, that's set full closed Spa return while in Pool Mode. Can't be anything else, ever, without a mechanical change at valve. Then, to get pool water to refresh spa, you need a Spillover Mode setup - taking water from pool and returning to spa. All of this, pool, spa, spillover are just 3 combinations of the 2 actuator valves - both full right, both full left, or one turned left while other turned right.

Aside from that, the only way to get water to spa return while in pool mode is to have a bypass line from pool return to spa return that you can manually control.

 

[klanel]

Aside from that, the only way to get water to spa return while in pool mode is to have a bypass line from pool return to spa return that you can manually control.

Sounds like the only way I can do what I want (being able to have water over the spillway while being able to use pool water features at the same time would be to either manually operate the 3 way valve or add the bypass valve you mention but the current return valve is just off the deck, so I don't think there is enough pipe to get in there.

 

[Toxophilite]

Sounds like the only way I can do what I want (being able to have water over the spillway while being able to use pool water features at the same time would be to either manually operate the 3 way valve or add the bypass valve you mention but the current return valve is just off the deck, so I don't think there is enough pipe to get in there.

Yeah, and you would still be manual no matter. We put a separate pump that runs features.

 

[Turbo1Ton]

I also have a separate pump that runs my water features.

--Jeff

 

[klanel]

I was supposed to have a dedicated pump on the spa but they did not plumb for it. But that may be something to think about. What size pump did you two use for your features? Is it automated for pump to come on when a feature actuator is operated?

Tox, I see yours is 3hp. What size is your's Jeff?

 

[Turbo1Ton]

Mine is also 3HP. And yes, when I turn on a feature, the pump turns on. I don't ever have to 'turn on' the feature pump. I just select the feature, the rest just happens.

--Jeff

 

[Toxophilite]

I was supposed to have a dedicated pump on the spa but they did not plumb for it. But that may be something to think about. What size pump did you two use for your features? Is it automated for pump to come on when a feature actuator is operated?

Tox, I see yours is 3hp. What size is your's Jeff?

After the fact, I think 3hp was a bit much for one fountain and a couple of bubblers, and, we don't use features as much as we thought we would, just occasionally. It's on a feature circuit for off and on, but the features have manual valves to tailor water flow to each. I would have way more aeration issue with those running every time pool is running than from my spillway running in pool mode via bypass valve.

 

[klanel]

About a week ago I first noticed the pump had stopped working. I restarted on the controller and it's stopping more and more frequently. Just this evening within a few hours has stopped 3 times. One time I saw the LED lights on this evening as well but they turned back off.

I looked at the alarms on the OnmiPL and the screens below are what appears. The water temp has never displayed, the salt has not been added, can't turn on the heat pump (may be due to temp sensor not working?). See some message about provision which I don't know what that means.

There may be other issues but it's never connected to our wifi network. Even my phone with hotspot, it sees it but won't connect. I am not confident that the plumber/electrician/jack of all trades has programmed it correctly either.



Anyone had issues with things shutting down or things turning on by themselves. Nothing in the schedule to run automatically.

 

[klanel]

Picture from early this morning. From looking at it, you might not know anything is wrong.

 

[kimkats]

Maybe start a new thread just for your equipment issues I don't have a clue about those.

 

[klanel]

I first posted here after becoming frustrated with my builder and for anyone who may have been following and wondered how things turned out, here is an update.

After 18 months of a quoted 12 week build, I filed a claim in magistrates against the builder for breach of contract and negligence and sought the maximum allowed amount of $15 k in damages. The day of the hearing, during the required mediation session, the builder told the mediator that he wasn't going to pay anything unless a judge ordered him. We went before the magistrates judge and when he saw the photos I had of a thirty foot long deck crack (following an unaddressed spa leak for 60 days) and a spa with no action (due to failure to install the additional plumbing for the spa jet pump, the judge repeatedly told the builder that he had a problem, asking him if he was insured and if he had an attorney. Then the judge kept asking me why I was in magistrates instead of filing in Superior. He took a recess, came back and said he was transferring to Superior court.

So, I hired an attorney, got many estimates, paid to have the deck scanned with ground penetrating radar to look for voids underneath the deck and hired a expert to come to court. The builder came with one expert, someone from the Hayward distributor whose only involvement was the sale of the equipment used.

I expected the hearing to be over within a couple of hours but we were there for 6 hours giving testimony, expert opinions, etc. In total, I spent $138,500 for the pool, equipment, retaining walls and deck. I ended up with over $54k in damage estimates.

The judge said he was going to delay making a verdict and may bring his own court expert out to look over the pool. I was hoping he would come out and see it for himself but after a few weeks, he handed down his disposition finding the builder in breach of contract and ordering him to pay $15,500. In his disposition, he stated the circumstances leading to the breach were poor communication, excessive age of the builder, health issues with the builder and the builder not being technically adept with texting, emails. The disposition only mentioned the spa not correctly plumbed, the robot cleaner not working and the filter not to contract which were only a portion of the claim.

So in traditional fashion, the builder did not willingly pay and a FI FA was obtained placing a lien on the builder which would then be attached to his assets. I went public on a social media website using his business name review. I also created a website with the same where I have shared many photos, legal documents and text messages. He has since paid the damages.

So, the deck has a 30 foot long deck crack with a 2.4 foot deep void running the entire length and another void, 1.2 feet deep that runs 25 feet from the spa (where a leak went on for 60 days unaddressed) to the side of the retaining wall. The voids were verified using ground penetrating radar.

The flagstone coping does not have an expansion joint and has numerous cracks in the joints.

The filter is a single cartridge filter that every expert I've had here said was not suitable for the amount of water flow we have.

The robot cleaner we were told was defective and would be replaced was not, so we have no cleaner.

The spa does not have the spa jet pump because the plumbing was not installed.

The overflow was installed too low and barely allows the minimum water level at the skimmer.

There are 17 ninety degree fittings at the equipment pad due the the failure of the builder to pair up the suction and return lines.

And the electrical, after two attempts was left not to code, no gfci breakers, no labeling of breakers, open plugs, double taps on the breakers. The first electrical was done by an unlicensed plumber using an affidavit from an electrical contractor without his knowledge or consent. He had wire rated at 55 amps on a 100 amp service.

During the entire 18 months prior to a claim being made, the builder spent a total of 6 hours here while and for the purpose of work taking place. I sent over 120 text messages, dozens of emails, two registered letters (no response to either), numerous phone calls, one mediation session and two hearings.

 

[kul]

What a nightmare. What are the next steps?