Current pb design

[Poolmichael]

Any thoughts? It's way bigger than the rectangle we started with.

 

[HermanTX]

Welcome to TFP. I like the geometric design and you can swim diagonaL.
What is the estimate on volume? Also, suggest you have min. 3.5ft depth by the steps.

 

[Poolmichael]

Welcome to TFP. I like the geometric design and you can swim diagonaL.
What is the estimate on volume? Also, suggest you have min. 3.5ft depth by the steps.

Thank you,
I don't have all the specs with me right now, but I do know that it's roughly 34' long by 17' at the narrow curves. I don't remember the measurement at widest point. And just under 16000 gal.
It's 3.5 at the steps and 7' at the deepest point.

 

[Poolmichael]

Im not great at posting things but here it goes. This I believe is my current build list.

Electrical: All electrical lines ran in SCD 80 Grey PVC bonded per code
Plumbing:
2 1/2 inch SCD 40 suction FOR Spa, Pool and Skimmers plumbing with long sweeps and 45 degree bends! – Includes VERSA PLUMB ENGINEERING! Dedicated Plumbing Lines
Rebar: #3 rebar 6'' - 8'' on center -
4 BAR BOX BEAM to maximize strength.
Gunite: Gunite is shot from ground up to ensure proper application. Gunite beam are 12'' Thick and Walls are 8”-10” Thick.
Warranty's:
Deck / Tile / Coping: 2 Year deck, tile and coping warranty.
Plaster: 15 Year warranty on upgraded pebble plaster! (PEBBLE TEC/WETEDGE)
Equipment: 3 Year bumper to bumper equipment warranty!
Gunite Shell: Life time warranty on the shell of the pool.
GUNITE Shell Warranty Transferable.
Pool Specs:
• Pool Length x Width: 14’ x 36’ (this has changed in current design)
• Pool Perimeter:100’ Perimeter POOL 3’ to 7’ Deep
• Pool Sq Ft: 468’ Sq Ft Pool
• Plaster Options: Premier Pebble
• Fill Line: Paramount Self Level Auto Fill
• Drain: ECLIPSE MAIN DRAIN - RESORT STYLE DRAIN
Skimmer: Paraskim Skimmers
• 6 Returns
• Standard Steps
• 8’ Seating Bench
• 4- Deck Jets
Decking:
• Deck Type: - 560’ – Sundek (changed in current design)
• Top Existing Patio with Sundek – 175’
• Area Drains – 170’ with 6 Heads run to street

Equipment:
• Pool Pump: 2HP VS JANDY Pump w/ Freeze Protection
• Cartridge Filter: 460’ JANDY Cartridge Filter
• 3 LED Lights
• Time Clock
• Nature 2 Chlorine System
• Electric Runs Included – 200’
• Auto Fill Line
• Overflow Line

Any thoughts or advice would be appreciated. Thank you.

 

[joepaiii]

Why not have the equipment on the backside of the little building so not visible from the house? Also maybe more seating bench areas in the shallow are, gives people places to sit and talk in the water. Check out jandy's lighting guide https://www.jandy.com/-/media/zodiac/global/downloads/sl/sl4572.pdf for light locations/ideas. Looks nice so far.

 

[HermanTX]

So it appears there are 2 skimmers and they will run those as independent lines back to the equipment pad along with a main drain and all 2.5” PVC which is all great for suction. They also will use long sweep ells and 45 deg fixtures to make bends. Again great.
They will most likely put a valve on each skimmer line to control suction from each. Suggest you request Jandy never lube 2 way valve for those as it will be easier to maintain in future. They will most likely put another Jandy never lube 3 way valve between the suction line for the main drain and the 2 suction lines for the skimmers.

I notice 4 deck jets. These can be nice but some really like them and others do not after a while. Just be sure you want them because they do have a significant upfront cost. You may want to discuss if each will have its own shut off valve in the event something goes awry with 1 of them you still want the others to operate.

The 1 VS pump should be good for your pool with no spa and only the deck jets as water feature. Also good with the large cartridge filter.
The nature 2 chlorine system should be exchanged for a salt water chlorine generator (SWCG) as that will perform better and also keep your pool better sanitized. You will get some push back from the PB because he will suggest a salt water pool will cause problems. There are lots of discussions on the forum regarding use of SWCG and its advantages over products such as the Nature 2 system.

It is noted that only a Timer is included. This is real basic and will not provide you any control to turn on or off the pump, the deck jets or the lights via remote capability. While the timer will allow you to program on/off times for your VS pump you will manually need to turn the valve for your deck jets and a switch for your lights. You need to consider a base automation system such as the Jandy iAquaLink RS 4 system. This would be wireless to your phone app or to a computer. You will be able to set multiple program times and have remote control of your lights and deck jets.

Hope this helps. I am sure others will jump in.

 

[Poolmichael]

So it appears there are 2 skimmers and they will run those as independent lines back to the equipment pad along with a main drain and all 2.5” PVC which is all great for suction. They also will use long sweep ells and 45 deg fixtures to make bends. Again great.
They will most likely put a valve on each skimmer line to control suction from each. Suggest you request Jandy never lube 2 way valve for those as it will be easier to maintain in future. They will most likely put another Jandy never lube 3 way valve between the suction line for the main drain and the 2 suction lines for the skimmers.

I notice 4 deck jets. These can be nice but some really like them and others do not after a while. Just be sure you want them because they do have a significant upfront cost. You may want to discuss if each will have its own shut off valve in the event something goes awry with 1 of them you still want the others to operate.

The 1 VS pump should be good for your pool with no spa and only the deck jets as water feature. Also good with the large cartridge filter.
The nature 2 chlorine system should be exchanged for a salt water chlorine generator (SWCG) as that will perform better and also keep your pool better sanitized. You will get some push back from the PB because he will suggest a salt water pool will cause problems. There are lots of discussions on the forum regarding use of SWCG and its advantages over products such as the Nature 2 system.

It is noted that only a Timer is included. This is real basic and will not provide you any control to turn on or off the pump, the deck jets or the lights via remote capability. While the timer will allow you to program on/off times for your VS pump you will manually need to turn the valve for your deck jets and a switch for your lights. You need to consider a base automation system such as the Jandy iAquaLink RS 4 system. This would be wireless to your phone app or to a computer. You will be able to set multiple program times and have remote control of your lights and deck jets.

Hope this helps. I am sure others will jump in.

Thank you for taking a look. The lack of automation is intentional in an effort to reign in the ballooning budget. We are getting a great pool with very basic equipment for the time being. With the electrical panel upgrade, pool shed, gutters, pool furniture, robot vacuum the bleeding has to stop somewhere. I would love to go saltwater, but we are over budget. As far as automation, with no spa and no heater I'm not seeing the need. I will never turn on the deck jets unless we are using the pool, and the same with the lights. The only reason I could imagine needing automation is to monitor the system to make sure there are no problems. Am I looking at this incorrectly?

 

[HermanTX]

Thank you for taking a look. The lack of automation is intentional in an effort to reign in the ballooning budget. We are getting a great pool with very basic equipment for the time being. With the electrical panel upgrade, pool shed, gutters, pool furniture, robot vacuum the bleeding has to stop somewhere. I would love to go saltwater, but we are over budget. As far as automation, with no spa and no heater I'm not seeing the need. I will never turn on the deck jets unless we are using the pool, and the same with the lights. The only reason I could imagine needing automation is to monitor the system to make sure there are no problems. Am I looking at this incorrectly?

Fully understand the budget aspect. I was just pointing out some items that may not help you over the longer term (nature 2) or provides you some convenience (automation).

 

[Poolmichael]

Fully understand the budget aspect. I was just pointing out some items that may not help you over the longer term (nature 2) or provides you some convenience (automation).

Yeah, I cringe every time i see the nature 2. My wife is sold on this "let's just do this for now and make sure the pb leaves room for improvement down the road" plan, I am not. I can invision shrinking the pool size a little to make up for the extra cost of going swg.
Am I correct in thinking that it's fairly easy to go from traditional chlorine system to a saltwater system, but the opposite is more difficult?

 

[HermanTX]

Yeah, I cringe every time i see the nature 2. My wife is sold on this "let's just do this for now and make sure the pb leaves room for improvement down the road" plan, I am not. I can invision shrinking the pool size a little to make up for the extra cost of going swg.
Am I correct in thinking that it's fairly easy to go from traditional chlorine system to a saltwater system, but the opposite is more difficult?

To install a SWCG you will need to redo some plumbing after the heater and before the pipes that go to the pool. Since you do not have a spa, it should not be a big issue. Adding a SWCG later will be fine. Just remember with a Nature 2 you still need to monitor chlorine levels. And if you follow the methodology of TFP, you will need to monitor your CYA to ensure you have active chlorine regardless of what the manual tells you with the Nature 2. So you can go down that path for a while and decide what is best. Refer to FC/CYA Levels

Also, same with automation, that is something you can add later. So doing it all manual will be fine initially and truthfully you will probably understand quicker how your pool functions with the different valves that you will need to check and set the timer, etc.

All can be added later. You cannot easily add to the dimensions of your pool, so if you are considering budget cuts then remove those items you can add later and ensure you are happy with the size of pool you want for the longer term.
Also, deck jets are not easy to add later but they are a cost up front. Some love them, others do not use them much after the newest of them wears off. So that is a consideration I suggest you research rather than reducing the size of your pool and changing your selection of plaster. Both will have long lasting effects.
Keep us posted on your final plans.

 

[HermanTX]

One other idea. Have you compared the cost of the Nature2 to a SWCG? I know your wife is sold on it but just curious what they are charging you for a Nature2 upfront? With a SWCG your cost are more upfront with the unit itself however with a Nature2 you have to purchase the mineral cartridge every 6 months plus add chlorine. Just need to consider total cost of ownership. On the forum many say their cell in the SWCG lasts over 5 years if you wish to look at all costs.

my only other concern is what minerals are being added with the Nature2? I did some research and nowhere do they list what is actually in it. That would make me more curious to what is being added to the pool.

 

[Poolmichael]

My builder is pushing the nature 2 system.
Anyone here use this system.
The silver and copper and who knows what other kind of minerals this system uses makes me worry about tds levels.

 

[Texas Splash]

Copper, you don't' want it. Avoid any mineral, ozone, or UV sales tactics. Manually adding liquid chlorine or having them install a salt water generator would be the way to go. Although be prepared for scare tactics on an SWG as they all seem to think it destroys everything. Ridiculous, but be prepared.

 

[Poolmichael]

The pb wants to charge me $2500 more to upgrade to pentair swg.
We have tweaked his pool design to get back down to our original budget.
I have found the CircuPool RJ30 Plus swg system online priced around $1100-$1400. I can install this myself in 6 months when the nature 2 cartridge needs to be replaced.
I think this is my present plan.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

You really don’t want to use the Nature2 system at all. Copper causes stains on pool
Surfaces that are impossible to manage. Why would you want to damage you plaster right off the bat. Can he just hit install anything and you’ll DIY after he’s done?? He’ll probably tell you some boloney that it’s illegal for him to build a pool without a chlorinator which is not true but that’s how they force their sales on you. See what you can get him to do or not do but please don’t use those stupid Nature2 systems, they are not the way to go.

 

[Mdragger88]

Give him the measurement of the circupool unit & have him install a dummy pipe with unions. Save that $ for your swg purchase.

 

[wireform]

No no you don't want it. I have a pool that I took over this year and has the nature2. Told them I don't like/use them. The water is more then perfect without nature2 cartridge.

 

[Poolmichael]

You really don’t want to use the Nature2 system at all. Copper causes stains on pool
Surfaces that are impossible to manage. Why would you want to damage you plaster right off the bat. Can he just hit install anything and you’ll DIY after he’s done?? He’ll probably tell you some boloney that it’s illegal for him to build a pool without a chlorinator which is not true but that’s how they force their sales on you. See what you can get him to do or not do but please don’t use those stupid Nature2 systems, they are not the way to go.

I have no experience with any of this, but prominently stated on nature 2 website."Nature2 Express Cartridges are warranted not to cause copper staining in your pool. This limited warranty requires that you exercise reasonable care of your pool and keep water in balance at all times and not use a copper-based algaecide.
Whether or not they stand behind this "warranty" I have no idea.
I guess the phrase "keep water in balance at all times" gives them all the out they would ever need. That's very subjective.
I guess if I do go this route, I need to photo document every test result for the first 6 months to be able to show everything is "in balance".

 

[Poolmichael]

No no you don't want it. I have a pool that I took over this year and has the nature2. Told them I don't like/use them. The water is more then perfect without nature2 cartridge.

so let me get this straight. You have the nature2 but don't use the cartridge?

 

[JoyfulNoise]

so let me get this straight. You have the nature2 but don't use the cartridge?

There are ways to hack the nature2 cartridges (I think you just saw the cartridge off from its cap, but don't quote me on that...) such that the system just passes water right through it with no chemical additions. Many, many former Nature2 owners who have come with horribly stained pools or water that has had too much stabilizer added to it from years of cartridge use have done the mod until they could afford to replace the entire unit.

Please review TFP's Pool School as it relates to sanitation options for your pool. You are still in the early phases of your build where you have maximum control over what you can get your builder to do. Many people who are in the depths of a pool build overlook the maintenance part because there's just so much going on that they simply don't have the energy to learn. There's that and the pool builders blowing smoke at them that they're going to build them a "world class pool" "it'll be so easy to manage" "you can just let a pool service company handle it" "pool stores test your water for free and give great advice" .... all of which is total BS. You need to learn now so that you're not one of those pool owners that rolls into TFP 3 years from now with a nasty green pool that has been contaminated with every stupid chemical on the pool store shelf and you're at your wits end ready to hire a backhoe to fill it all in with dirt. Believe me, the nanosecond after you sign that last check to the PB they will forget your name and not give a darn about your "problems". Their job is to sell you a pool and collect the money, they don't care what happens to you after that. The same with pool equipment makers - their motivation is to sell you a product and promise you the world. As you have discerned, their warranties are worth less than the paper they are printed on and, since they are not printed on paper, they are worthless. If you believe that "no copper stains guarantee" from Nature2, then I'm going to PM you later with a sweetheart deal on a bridge in Brooklyn....

Please review Pool School. At the very least, it will make you more informed about pool care. At the top of this thread you used the words "makes me worry about tds levels" ... that right there tells me that you don't have the right information. TDS is meaningless for pool care but pool builders and pool stores love to use that phrase so they can make themselves look like they are smart. SO please read through TFP and ask any questions you like. And be very wary of pool builders advice on sanitation. Pool builders know how to dig a hole in your backyard and put a giant concrete bucket in it and fill it with water ... that's about the extent of their true knowledge. Few, if any, pool builders understand anything about water chemistry.