Cover Pump any good?

[whiter0se]

Hi all,
Recently I went ahead and brought this pool cover pump.

https://www.amazon.com/EDOU-Automatic-Swimming-Including-Adapters/dp/B08QMLMZ6S?ref_=ast_sto_dp&th=1&psc=1

Its automatic and seems to work really well. However, there are couple things I wanted to run by everyone.

First, it only has 2 prong electrical wire. There is no ground and considering this thing is going to sit in the water outdoors, isn't it necessary? I do not have GFCI plugs outdoors so am I asking for trouble here?
Are these okay to leave outdoors and get wet? I may bring it inside when the weather gets down to freezing but for now, is it okay to sit outside while plugged in?

Thanks

 

[ajw22]

First, it only has 2 prong electrical wire. There is no ground and considering this thing is going to sit in the water outdoors, isn't it necessary? I do not have GFCI plugs outdoors so am I asking for trouble here?
Are these okay to leave outdoors and get wet? I may bring it inside when the weather gets down to freezing but for now, is it okay to sit outside while plugged in?

The pump is ungrounded and your outdoor outlet is not GFCI is two strikes. I would not use that pump and I would change your outdoor outlet to GFCI.

Pumps outdoors eventually begin tripping the GFCI which indicates when they become unsafe and need to be replaced.

I use this pump for my pool cover...

https://www.amazon.com/Little-APCP-1700-Automatic-Swimming-Submersible/

 

[Mdragger88]

If your home is newer , built within the last 20 years or so, your actual gfci’s may be in the house or garage as 1 gfci can be wired to protect several other receptacles.
Without gfci protection I wouldn’t use a submersible pump of any kind.
There is also the option to use one of these if your receptacle isn’t gfci protected & you don’t have the ability to install a gfci

Personally I wouldn’t use that pump- there’s no mention of uL listing anywhere
You can get a name brand one with a 3 prong cord like black & decker for that price.

Black & Decker 350 GPH Automatic Pool Cover Pump

The Black & Decker 350 gallons-per-hour pool cover pump is specifically designed for the purpose of keeping your pool protected by removing water off the top of swimming pool covers. Its 1/4 HP ensures water removal up to 350 gallons per hour. Save big on energy costs with this automatic switch...

poolpartstogo.com

If you can afford a higher priced one ($160) the little giant one like AJW posted or a Wayne automatic cover pump are great options that also have 3 prong cords & good track records.

 

[whiter0se]

Wow thank you all. I’ll return this and get the black and decker. Thank you all. Because the Black and Decker pump has a ground prong, would I still need to connect it to a GFCI outlet? My house is approx 50 years old and I doubt the whole house is wired to 1 GFCI. Thank you for the wall adapter suggestion, I didn’t know one existed. I ordered the black and decker from Amazon just now.

 

[toolerb50]

Wow thank you all. I’ll return this and get the black and decker. Thank you all. Because the Black and Decker pump has a ground prong, would I still need to connect it to a GFCI outlet? My house is approx 50 years old and I doubt the whole house is wired to 1 GFCI. Thank you for the wall adapter suggestion, I didn’t know one existed. I ordered the black and decker from Amazon just now.

Yes, the purpose of GFCI is to prevent shocks and fires. It's also a current requirement in the national electrical code to have all outdoor outlets be GFCI.

 

[Decoy205]

Good luck with the pump. I agree with everyone here. I ended up getting this one on a prime sale for $111. Acquaer 1/4 HP Automatic Swimming Pool Cover Pump, 115 V Submersible Pump with 3/4” Check Valve Adapter & 25ft Power Cord, 2250 GPH Water Removal for Pool, Hot Tubs, Rooftops, Water Beds and more https://a.co/d/hunth9f

Seems similar to the Wayne and harbor freight versions which get good ratings. Hopefully I don’t get a dud.

 

[whiter0se]

Yes, the purpose of GFCI is to prevent shocks and fires. It's also a current requirement in the national electrical code to have all outdoor outlets be GFCI.

Ah we just brought this house about 6 months ago and I guess our inspector missed this. I can maybe have an electrician come and install new plugs everywhere outdoors. I do have outdoor lightning that I also use in the summer.
Thanks again

 

[ajw22]

Ah we just brought this house about 6 months ago and I guess our inspector missed this. I can maybe have an electrician come and install new plugs everywhere outdoors. I do have outdoor lightning that I also use in the summer.
Thanks again

There are a few ways to get GFCI protection on your outdoor outlets. It does not require replacing all outlets.

If you have a circuit breaker panel then one GFCI CB can be installed in the panel that protects all outlets on the circuit.

If there is a string of outlets in series on a circuit then one GFCI outlet can be installed that protects all other outlets downstream.

It is worth your families safety to have an electrician review your house and discuss your alternatives to improve the electrical safety in your house. Both your outdoor outlets and indoor wet areas such as kitchens, bathrooms, and laundry rooms.

 

[whiter0se]

There are a few ways to get GFCI protection on your outdoor outlets. It does not require replacing all outlets.

If you have a circuit breaker panel then one GFCI CB can be installed in the panel that protects all outlets on the circuit.

If there is a string of outlets in series on a circuit then one GFCI outlet can be installed that protects all other outlets downstream.

It is worth your families safety to have an electrician review your house and discuss your alternatives to improve the electrical safety in your house. Both your outdoor outlets and indoor wet areas such as kitchens, bathrooms, and laundry rooms.

Thank you. for this! I just walked all around the house and made sure that there are GFCI plugs in the kitchen (the two near the sink), all bathrooms and the laundry room. We have an tankless water heater, that was not connected to a GFCI outlet but maybe it's in the circuit breaker panel or not necessary? I'm nowhere near a electrician or handyman, I work on computers/software for a living so this is beyond my technical knowledge. The previous home owners did mention upgrading the electrical wiring throughout the house also.

 

[ajw22]

You may have your outdoor outlets protected by a GFCI CB or one GFCI outlet at the start of a string of outlets protecting the outdoor outlets. That GFCI outlet protecting your outdoor outlets may be one of your indoor GFCI outlets.

Get an outlet tester that has a button to test the GFCI. If an outlet is GFCI protected when you press the button the GFCI will trip. You will then need to find the protector to reset it and restore power.

https://www.amazon.com/Receptacle-Tester-Klein-Tools-RT210/dp/B01AKX8L0M/

 

[whiter0se]

You may have your outdoor outlets protected by a GFCI CB or one GFCI outlet at the start of a string of outlets protecting the outdoor outlets. That GFCI outlet protecting your outdoor outlets may be one of your indoor GFCI outlets.

Get an outlet tester that has a button to test the GFCI. If an outlet is GFCI protected when you press the button the GFCI will trip. You will then need to find the protector to reset it and restore power.

https://www.amazon.com/Receptacle-Tester-Klein-Tools-RT210/dp/B01AKX8L0M/

You know you may be right. I also have a shed that has electrical outlets. One of the outlets is a GFCI whereas some of the others are normal. I’m wondering now if they share the same wiring or circuit. I’ll go buy one of those GFCI testers from Harbor Freight later today to test out.

 

[whiter0se]

Thanks everyone for the suggestions. I went ahead and received the black and decker cover pump. Seems to work well and keeps itself primed.
Now back again with another question, in the photo, the cover is installed and held down by the guardian no screw fence system. The black jugs hold about 7 gallons of water, approx 45 pounds each and I have 15 spread out.

Now because this AGP is on a deck, I can’t close with a wire and make it airtight. The wind has a tendency to push the cover up however everything still stays in place. I have bungie cords holding the covers incase the jugs slip.

My question is, will the wind be an issue of pushing muck into the pool even with the cover and the weights placed around the pool? Will the water freeze up because of the colder winds in the winter?

 

[Mdragger88]

You should be good with the debris issue.
The water in the pool & on top of the cover will freeze if the temps drop. There’s nothing you can do about that. You will need to remove the pump in freezing weather- i just set mine on the deck because we go back & forth with freezing weather but up north it will probably remain that way so you can just store it until the weather warms up again.
This is because the hose will freeze before the puddle so the pump will be trying to pump but the water will have no where to go & you will burn the pump up.

 

[cj133]

Yes, the purpose of GFCI is to prevent shocks and fires. It's also a current requirement in the national electrical code to have all outdoor outlets be GFCI.

This is incorrect my friend.
GFCIs do not prevent fires in any way. In fact, I'd say they are a bigger risk of fire due to all of the electronics in them, especially the cheaper cord end ones. A AFCI breaker can help prevent fires, but not GFCI.

They do NOT prevent shocks. They are intended to prevent shocks that could be fatal. I believe most trip around 5ma which you will most certainly feel. So, they absolutely can save lives but you can still get a pretty good shock and not trip a GFCI. I've known many, including my self that have had decent shocks from things being protected by a working GFCI.


I'm posting this as I feel many have a false sense of safety when it comes to GFCI's. They serve a very important purpose but they aren't perfect.

 

[toolerb50]

This is incorrect my friend.
GFCIs do not prevent fires in any way. In fact, I'd say they are a bigger risk of fire due to all of the electronics in them, especially the cheaper cord end ones. A AFCI breaker can help prevent fires, but not GFCI.

They do NOT prevent shocks. They are intended to prevent shocks that could be fatal. I believe most trip around 5ma which you will most certainly feel. So, they absolutely can save lives but you can still get a pretty good shock and not trip a GFCI. I've known many, including my self that have had decent shocks from things being protected by a working GFCI.


I'm posting this as I feel many have a false sense of safety when it comes to GFCI's. They serve a very important purpose but they aren't perfect

Thank you for your feedback, my intent was not to mislead anyone and will use better words next time like "help prevent" instead. Electricity is dangerous. Many people angst over the cost and rightly so because most of the time it's expensive but it's peace of mind instead of questioning yourself as DIY or wondering if that person on the Internet is right. I would recommend the original poster seek assistance from a qualified electrician.

NFPA - Electrical circuit-interrupters

Protective devices capable of responding to overloads and short circuit, such as circuit breakers, have been available for a number of years. Newer technologies now provide enhanced protection from arcing or ground-faults, which may prevent fires or shock.

www.nfpa.org

 

[Ahhsomeguy]

Submersible Pump Buyers. In my opinion, after retailing many thousands of submersible pumps, you will need to search far and wide to beat a Little Giant product. They cost more but they deliver top performance for a same-class comparison. Spend a little extra and get a whole lot more performance and protection.

 

[phonedave]

Wow thank you all. I’ll return this and get the black and decker. Thank you all. Because the Black and Decker pump has a ground prong, would I still need to connect it to a GFCI outlet? My house is approx 50 years old and I doubt the whole house is wired to 1 GFCI. Thank you for the wall adapter suggestion, I didn’t know one existed. I ordered the black and decker from Amazon just now.

The type of plug (three prong or otherwise) does not dictate if it needs to be plugged into a GFCI or not.

GFCIs are required in certain locations by code (outdoors, near water, etc). A GFCI in basic terms senses the amount of electricity going out on the hot side and coming back in on the neutral. If it detect a large enough difference, it assumes the difference is going somewhere else, such as through your body. That is when it trips. Notice that the ground plug never came into play here.

The ground plug is used to protect the user from a case becoming energized. Lets say you have a loose hot wire in the pump, and it is touching the metal housing. If you grab the pump and touch the housing you get zapped. With a ground, the ground prong is attached to the case. If the wire touches the case, it will cause the breaker in the panel to trip.

You can see that a GFCI is "safer" than a ground. The ground only helps if power inadvertently goes through a grounded part. A GFCI helps if power goes through anything it is not supposed to.

A ground and a GFCI together is like a belt and suspenders.

In fact, if you have really old two prong receptacles in your house, with no ground wire, you can change them out with GFCIs as long as you label them "No Equipment Ground" (that is why they put those stickers in the GFCI package)

Also, if you have a GFCI protecting downstream standard receptacles, you are supposed to label those standard receptacles "GFCI Protected" (again, they put stickers for that in the package with the GFCI)

 

[cj133]

The type of plug (three prong or otherwise) does not dictate if it needs to be plugged into a GFCI or not.

GFCIs are required in certain locations by code (outdoors, near water, etc). A GFCI in basic terms senses the amount of electricity going out on the hot side and coming back in on the neutral. If it detect a large enough difference, it assumes the difference is going somewhere else, such as through your body. That is when it trips. Notice that the ground plug never came into play here.

The ground plug is used to protect the user from a case becoming energized. Lets say you have a loose hot wire in the pump, and it is touching the metal housing. If you grab the pump and touch the housing you get zapped. With a ground, the ground prong is attached to the case. If the wire touches the case, it will cause the breaker in the panel to trip.

You can see that a GFCI is "safer" than a ground. The ground only helps if power inadvertently goes through a grounded part. A GFCI helps if power goes through anything it is not supposed to.

A ground and a GFCI together is like a belt and suspenders.

In fact, if you have really old two prong receptacles in your house, with no ground wire, you can change them out with GFCIs as long as you label them "No Equipment Ground" (that is why they put those stickers in the GFCI package)

Also, if you have a GFCI protecting downstream standard receptacles, you are supposed to label those standard receptacles "GFCI Protected" (again, they put stickers for that in the package with the GFCI)

The one thing I'm unsure of is, are you allowed to use an ungrounded GFCI outdoors?
I know it's acceptable inside, but never explored the rules regarding outside use and pool equipment.

I realize, that's a whole separate subject, but.


There's a reason I'd consider a GFCI protected circuit less safe than grounded, and that's because the GFCI can fail. Of course, so can a ground but it seems much less likely.
I suppose that's why pools etc they seem to want both.

 

[phonedave]

The one thing I'm unsure of is, are you allowed to use an ungrounded GFCI outdoors?
I know it's acceptable inside, but never explored the rules regarding outside use and pool equipment.

I realize, that's a whole separate subject, but.


There's a reason I'd consider a GFCI protected circuit less safe than grounded, and that's because the GFCI can fail. Of course, so can a ground but it seems much less likely.
I suppose that's why pools etc they seem to want both.

Pools require a bonding - which is not the same as grounding.

Bonding makes the things it is connected to (water, pump housing, ladders, the earth, etc) the same electrical potential.

Grounding provides a path back to the electrical system to clear faults (power going where it should not be, such as to a switch plate, or the housing of your pool vac)

Bonding should not be connected to the grounding which should not be connected to the neutral (except at specific points - or else you can get shocked by a neutral)

As far as I know, using an ungrounded GFCI wherever a GFCI is required is just fine. I'm not an electrician and I do not have the NEC in front of me, but as far as I know there is nothing against it. The function of a GFCI does not require a ground.

Any GFCI should be tested on at least a monthly basis that is why they all have that little "test / reset" button on them - that is required by code (yeah, I know, nobody does, myself included). Heck, I have a radiant floor thermostat with a built in GFCI that has a test button on the side of the thermostat. Of course there is the possibility that the GFCI goes bad the minute after you test it.

Early GFCIs could fail "hot" however since, maybe 2000, they all have interlocks so that if the GFCI fails then fails into the off position.