Confusion on FC CC test

Pam Jo

Active member
Apr 24, 2017
31
Southern Indiana
Hi! Pam here. I'm new to the forum, but have been following for a few years. My husband and I opened the pool ourselves this year and am hoping to use the Trouble Free method with the oxygenation part of the Ecosmarte system. Hopefully, you can see my signature to understand what I'm using.;)
Pool had a slight haze upon opening (usually is, when opening, though). It's pretty clear now, but I'm having trouble getting any chlorine reading from the the Taylor K-2006 test kit.
Before slamming my numbers were:
PH 7.4
TA 80
CH 500
CYA 20/30
According to the Chlorine/CYA chart I needed to raise shock FC to between 10 and 12, and pool calculator said to add between 5/6 gal. bleach, which I did Saturday evening. But when I checked the FC Sunday using the DPD test, I didn't get any pink or red color, even after adding ten plus scoops. After it set a bit, it did start to turn pink, but I think it's supposed to as you add and then swirl to mix. By the way, the DPD powder doesn't mix or dissolve very well. Also, is it normal for the power to be less than half full when first opening it?
I thought maybe since I shocked the night before chlorine was just really high and bleaching the color out. Now I'm wondering if the chlorine is just really way low, since we just opened it.

So my question...what do I do next? Add another 5/6 gal bleach?
Thanks so much for any suggestions!
Pam
 

Donldson

TFP Expert
LifeTime Supporter
In The Industry
Jun 12, 2009
3,341
NW Ohio
Welcome to TFP!

What you describe with the FAS-DPD test sounds perfectly normal, you just had zero FC. It sounds like there is something in your water that consumed the chlorine you added quite quickly. Not surprising if you normally run zero chlorine, there is always something growing in your pool even if you can't see it.

Unfortunately, TFP is not compatible with any Ecosmarte system. We do not recommend ever running less than the minimum FC for you CYA, per the FC/CYA chart. You won't find any love here for a system sold by fear tactic and demonizing chlorine. I hope you will consider TFPC for your entire pool care, after all you already have the proper kit and are using chlorine, why add more steps and complications?
 

Pam Jo

Active member
Apr 24, 2017
31
Southern Indiana
Thanks for your reply, Donldson! I'm not using the Ecosmarte system as they recommend. We had too much copper when using their system, so we have taken the copper bars out. On the recommendation of Alan, from 'Ask Alan a Question" a pool online help, a couple years ago, he recommended keeping the FC to 1-3ppm. He said the oxidation that the Ecosmarte provides, will help me maintain any given FC level, using less chlorine. There are no extra steps using the oxidation. It's already hooked up and runs by itself, just oxidizes as the water passes through the chamber.

I think you're right about something eating the chlorine. At first I thought chlorine was too high to read. I'm still learning. Thought slamming was the same as shock, which I thought you do one time. With slamming, sounds like I need to keep adding 5/6 gal chlorine in the evening, and again in the morning until I get my FC level to 10/12, then make sure it can hold the overnight FC test. Is that correct?
Pam

- - - Updated - - -

I also meant to ask if I can use pool shock bags (leftover) to slam or should I use liquid bleach only?
 

triptyx

TFP Guide
Apr 12, 2016
1,495
Tucson, AZ
Unfortunately "Alan" seems to be repeating the tired and disproven "keep FC low no matter what!" approach that is used by the pool stores and other folks who have a stake in getting your pool green so they can sell you all kinds of chemicals, elixers, and gadgets to "fix" the green pool you now have. "Oxidizer" or not, the bulk of the pool is sitting outside of the pipes there, and localized sanitization isn't going to last once that "clean" water has re-entered your pool - it mixes with everything already there and you need to have something in the pool itself that is actively sanitizing the water - which in this case is chlorine.

So, if we can set that aside for a moment, let's discuss the remainder of your problem.

The DPD powder container shouldn't be full - you sound like you got the correct amount in your...vial...for lack of a better word. :)

If the water doesn't change color when you add a heaping scoop of DPD powder and swirl, you have no chlorine. This test reads up to 50ppm, which is a HUGE number - you'll get pink color if there is chlorine in the sample. I'm afraid you don't have chlorine in the pool.

Your solid shock product likely contains CYA. You're already right about where you want to be to attack this problem you're having, so I'd recommend you do not use the bagged shock. Stick to liquid chlorine/bleach (plain, unscented, and not splashless or "EZPour"). For now, follow the SLAM instructions. Using PoolMath, add enough bleach to reach your SLAM target for 30CYA, which is FC12, then leaving the pump running, brush and retest/re-raise the chlorine to 12 as often as possible. If you're out at work during the day like most of us, get up and test in the morning, test right before work, test when you get home, test after dinner, and test at bedtime. Initially you'll need to add chlorine pretty often to get ahead of whatever is growing in there, but soon you'll see the demand for chlorine drop off and you can test less often.
 

Pam Jo

Active member
Apr 24, 2017
31
Southern Indiana
Ok, I slammed with 7 gal 6% bleach last night. FC was at 0.6, CC at 0.4, this morning. I dropped another 6 gal bleach in this morning and FC is 0.8 and CC 0.4. Slow going!��

Would it make sense to add double the amount of chlorine to get ahead, like 12?. That's a lot of bleach bottles! And can they be added to the skimmer or better around the pool. Why splashless?

Should I slam more often than morning and night? Seems I read, not less than two times a day, but not more than every two hours. Is that correct? Sunny and hot here now. Rain coming in by the weekend and I'll be out of town. I normally cover, if it's going to storm and out of town. Is that a problem, if my numbers finally get up to 10/12 FC?

Rollercoastr, I may have to look into one of those! I am hoping I won't be doing this much stirring and slamming once I get my pool in line!

Thanks for all your help!
 

Richard320

TFP Expert
LifeTime Supporter
Jan 6, 2010
20,403
San Dimas, CA (LA County)
You don't want splashless bleach. Whatever it is they add, it makes the pool foamy, like you added Mister Bubble.

The more often you add bleach, the faster it will clear. It's tempting to double up but you risk bleaching the liner. Pouring it in the skimmer is not the best way, because straight out of the bottle, bleach is pretty caustic and could get rough on the pump seals. Better to pour it in front of the return jet and let it dilute it and blow it out into the pool. Some immediate brushing will help mix it up good.

You have a big pool, so it's going to take a whole lot of bleach, period.
This is sort of an extreme case...

 

Rollercoastr

Gold Supporter
May 18, 2016
809
West Bloomfield, MI
Not splashless!! Whatever is added to give splashless bleach that gel-quality is something you don't want in your pool.

The whole process, from green to clean-and-clear is called SLAM. Your goal is to keep the FC level at the "shock" level as often as possible. If you had a way to lean over your pool and dispense exactly the amount of chlorine it needed all day long, we'd applaud that. I'm not sure where not more than every 2 hours came from? Are you using Pool Math to determine how much to add each time?

I use my Speedstir at least weekly. Your testing will decrease after your SLAM, but the Speedstir will continue to earn its keep.

- - - Updated - - -

i really need to type faster!
 

Pam Jo

Active member
Apr 24, 2017
31
Southern Indiana
That's not too extreme! I'm a third of the way to that photo!��

I'm sorry, it says, not more than once per hour, not two. My mistake. Pool school on Slamming: "Test and adjust chlorine levels as frequently as practical, but not more than once per hour, and not less than twice a day. Chlorine additions should be frequent, especially at the beginning."

I hope concentrated (8%) bleach is ok to use? It is splashless.

Pool calculator is where I'm getting my number on how much bleach to use and the Chlorine/CYA chart to tell me how high FC
Pool school says I'm done when I meet these three things:


  • CC is 0.5 or lower;
  • You pass an OCLT (ie overnight FC loss test shows a loss of 1.0 ppm or less);
  • And the water is clear.
Water is clear now and CC is 0.4. I'm assuming after I reach 10/12 FC and no loss greater than 1.0ppm I will be done slamming and can let the FC drift to normal recommended levels? Is that correct?


 

Pam Jo

Active member
Apr 24, 2017
31
Southern Indiana
Ok, so now I'm a bit concerned if this method is going to work for this large a pool. I noticed a patch on the shallow corner of my pool is bleaching out. This is what I've done so far:

5-15: 9pm started slam w/7gal 6% reg bleach
5-16: 7:30am FC 0.6, CC 0.4, added 6gal reg bleach
1:30pm: FC 0.8, CC 0.4, added 3gal concentrated (8%) bleach
5:30pm: FC 1ppm, CC 0.4, added 3gal concentrated bleach
9pm: FC 1.8 CC 0.4, added 3gal (8%) concentrated bleach
5-17@7:14am FC 1, CC 0.4.
9:30am FC 0.8 CC 0.4, PH 7.3, TA 80, CYA 25-30.

I thought I'd be a lot farther by now. I had yesterday open, but today and tomorrow, I don't, and will be gone for the weekend. I'm concerned adding more bleach will hurt the liner more. The liner is older, but in decent shape.

I have one gal bleach left and can't get to the store as I sit my 3 month and 4yr old granddaughters. I also have about 6 or 8 shock bags from last year.

Suggestions?
Thank you!
 

kimdurg

Well-known member
May 26, 2014
65
North Canton, Ohio
How are you performing your FC test?
If you are slamming, your FC should be 12 (at 30 CYA).
If you are done slamming (past OCLT), then you want to keep FC between 3 - 5 (at 30 CYA).
Anything less than 3, and you're asking for algae.
 

jaduck

LifeTime Supporter
Aug 10, 2013
422
Arab, Alabama
Looking at your pool, I would stop putting in chlorine, because something just ain't right! I think you have so much chlorine in your water you are bleaching out the indicator dye. Have you tried adding more powder? If you have super high FC the following could happen.

1. 10 ml sample + 1 scoop of powder = very light pink and it seems to fade.

2. Add a second scoop and does the same thing.

3. keep adding scoops until it turns very pink almost red...I would limit to 5 or 6 scoops.

4. This would indicate that your FC is extremely elevated...ie, stop adding chlorine.

You could also dilute your pool water with tap water and confirm this issue. Maybe try a 1:10 or 1:20 dilution.

I tested this with a super concentrated sample...and the powder turned the sample light pink, I kept adding powder and the sample eventually turned deep red.

The experts may think I'm nutz...Nutz or not, if your liner is starting to fade it is better to be safe than sorry.
 

jaduck

LifeTime Supporter
Aug 10, 2013
422
Arab, Alabama
Also, It is possible that you have ammonia in your pool. Typically a pool with ammonia does not look like your crystal clear pool. I guess you could test for ammonia with an aquarium test kit as well. Other than those suggestions I'm stumped.
 

Pam Jo

Active member
Apr 24, 2017
31
Southern Indiana
I just did the 10ml sample with one scoop and is very light pink. As I add more scoops and swirl, it just gets a little more pink, definitely not red. Last two scoops didn't seem to make much difference in color. I stopped at six scoops.

I'm wondering if the oxygenation (titanium bars) from the Ecosmarte makes the bleach more efficient?

The last few years I've just been running with the oxygenation part going and adding chlorine (bleach or shock bags occasionally after heavy swimmer load and keeping chlorinator tabs in a float.

I will say that I have had some light haze and algae occasionally through the years, but I have never had an issue with completely cloudy water other than back before the Ecosmarte installation, so I think the oxygenation part of the system does help. Just wish I knew why it appears to be bleaching liner with only 1ppm FC reading?
 
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