Breaker question

moore887

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We had Leslie's remove a noisy 2hp single speed pump and replace it with a Jacuzzi branded 3hp VS. It worked fine for a couple of months but the Square D 20amp breaker is tripping. After reading several threads and discussing it with a Leslie's rep, I want to put a siemens QF220 in. However, they appear to be in short supply and I wondering can I up it to a 30amp or should I keep looking for a reasonably priced 20amp?
 

PoolGate

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Breakers protect the wire. Never put a larger breaker than your wire can handle. What gauge is your wire? Have you tried another SquareD 20 amp?
 
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Jimrahbe

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M,

The size of the breaker is determined by the wire size connected to the breaker and not the load (motor)..

So no.

Thanks,

Jim R.
 

moore887

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I replaced the squareD with a new one from HD and returned it a week later after the new breaker continued to trip. Although I haven't sat looking at it, I belive the breaker may be tripping during speed changes but later, I may just change the timer on the pump for the heck of it and run it 24/7 on the one speed.

Just brings me to the next question, This is an automated system (Hayward goldline I think) so it has it's own digital pump timer controller, but I have seen some techs leave the timer the way it is and set the new VS pump for 24/7 and I've seen it done the other way around. Who's right?
 

PoolGate

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I replaced the squareD with a new one from HD and returned it a week later after the new breaker continued to trip. Although I haven't sat looking at it, I belive the breaker may be tripping during speed changes but later, I may just change the timer on the pump for the **** of it and run it 24/7 on the one speed.

Just brings me to the next question, This is an automated system (Hayward goldline I think) so it has it's own digital pump timer controller, but I have seen some techs leave the timer the way it is and set the new VS pump for 24/7 and I've seen it done the other way around. Who's right?

What is the current draw of the pump? Post a pic of the pump electric label. Also is the pump on a GFI circuit? If you have a clamp-on current meter see how much current it's actually drawing.
 
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PoolGate

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It looks like you are well within your 20 amp breaker limits. Possibly the GFI is tripping the breaker. And since you said you tried a new breaker with the same issue, I would suspect something is wrong with the pump. Recheck all the connections, grounds, neutral and bonding lug. You could isolate if this is a GFI fault by installing a non-GFI breaker. I would not suggest leaving that long-term though. I assume the pump is the only thing on that circuit.
 

laprjns

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If the pump is the only load on the breaker and it draws it name plate current of 8.4 amps or less you could go with a 15 amp GFI breaker, QF215A. That's what I'm using on my Vgreen 1.65 pump which draws 10.5 amps. The GE GFI breaker that I was initially using would trip immediately on pump power up. Going to the Siemens QF215A resolve the tripping issue.
BTW, I assume that you confirmed that the Siemens QF style breakers fit in your load center.
 
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moore887

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There is 7 amps draw according to these meter at prime speed. It dropped to 5 amps after prime. The Siemens breaker that I had planned to put it seems to be discontinued. I'm not sure about the size if it will fit to the bar or not that's why I would rather buy from Home Depot or Lowes so it's easier to return if it doesn't fit. I wonder could I drop to a 15 amp breaker?
 

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VetteBlue

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How old is your salt cell? Tripping breakers and blowing fuses is also typical of a salt cell failure.

I went through one season with the system intermittently throwing breakers. My pool builder thought it was the Variable Speed Pump causing it even though it wasn't caused by the pump spinning up or down. Since it was so intermittent, like tripping the breaker 4-5 times over 4-5 months, I just kept resetting the breaker. Figured a wire wasn't quite tight enough somewhere even though I retightened everything. But the next season I opened up to breakers tripping a fuses blowing in the system. Went thru 4-5 fuses in one day. Finally realized I had no FC at 100%. Replaced the salt cell and solved the problem.
 
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CJadamec

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You got me curious about the Siemens breaker. Per their website it says product discontinued with no replacement. That QF220P is a tricky one to find.

These folks claim to have some in stock. Might be with a call if you are looking.

You should be fine with a 15 amp breaker if you can get one. Priming speed is typically lower than full RPM so just keep in mind if for some reason you ever run the pump at full RPM it might trip a 15amp breaker. Not sure why you would ever run full RPM though.
 

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You can always go lower on a breaker it won't hurt anything. Worst case it blows more often. I suspect it is the GFI portion that is causing the trip.
 

CJadamec

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PoolGate

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This siemans 220 volt GFI breakers are discontinued but apparently a hot item. They go for up to $200 on ebay.
 

laprjns

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Apparently Siemens discontinued the QF220P back in 2016 according to this web page, see the line Product Life Clyde Effective Date. The current model /part number is QF220A (or QF215A for the 15 amp version) according to Section 1 page 40 of Siemens Speedfax Product Catalog.
Siemens 2020 product Catalog- GFCI Breakers.png
Not sure what the differences are, if any, between the new and old part numbers. However they still seem to be out of stock everywhere.
I bought a QF215A back in 2019 foe around $80.
 

Newdude

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Not sure what the differences are, if any, between the new and old part numbers. However they still seem to be out of stock everywhere
Whatever you do find, make sure it has the 6 Milliamp trip point and not the 3.
 

JamesW

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Mar 2, 2011
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Whatever you do find, make sure it has the 6 Milliamp trip point and not the 3.
There are none that trip at 3 milliamps.

GFCIs (Ground Fault Circuit-Interrupters) are intended for the protection of personnel and trip in the range of range of 4 milliamps to 6 milliamps.

They might be listed as 4 milliamps, 5 milliamp or 6 milliamps, but they are all the same rating just like 220, 230 and 240 all describe the same voltage.

GFPE (Ground-Fault Protection of Equipment) are intended for the protection of equipment and usually to trip in the 30 mA or higher range.

 

CJadamec

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Whatever you do find, make sure it has the 6 Milliamp trip point and not the 3.
That advice is against NEC code 680.21 (c) requires class A GFCI protection.

Class A protective devices will trip at 6ma or more, they will not trip below 4ma.

A class A device can trip anywhere between 4-6ma and be acceptable in design, but it must trip above 6ma.
 

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