Blank Canvas in Manteca, CA need help Please :)

mihzyd777

Well-known member
Jun 10, 2009
49
Manteca, CA
Hello everyone,

It's been a looooong while since I've been on. This site helped us so much with our last pool and getting our SWG and balancing chem etc... So thank you all very much for all that past help and any future help you can assist us with. Sooooo here's the deal......we sold our house because my mom is sick and we will be taking care of her and my dad. That house already had a pool when we bought so I added the heat pump and Pentair 40k SWG to it and new Penter 80 D.E. filter and Pentair Intelliflow pump with EasyTouch controller (little over kill on the controller lol) since it was all stolen when we bought the house 10 years ago. That pool was a free form pool with no spa and no water features and went from 4' - 6' roughly. It was 15,500 gallons and was great for our 3 girls.

So the new house we bought sits on 9,651 sq. ft lot inside a court. The house isn't being built until next month but I have attached the Plot plan that give some measurements. This will actually be the first pool we ever built but the 2nd we've owned. We kind of have a somewhat flexible budget from $40k-70k and really need help on what type of inground pool to build (is one Shape better than the other and why etc..) is free form really that much more than a simple rectangle etc..., where to build it (Currently looking at upper right hand corner on plot map) but we are totally open to suggestions. Also, what type of tile should we use on the sides that is more resistant to calcium line buildup? I'm fine with the pool being the same gallons as our last pool (15.5k gallons), but I wanted to make it a little more special for our kids and us to enjoy more. We started working with 1 pool company out of several and we are waiting to have a meeting with them sometime next week.

There are 2 features I'm considering and will ultimately pick 1 more than likely. The first is a 16' ft. wide sheer rain waterfall near the deep end kind of like the picture I posted but currently we are considering a rectangle pool to keep cost down. The Sheer rain would be mounted on a approx. 20x20 arbor that hangs over approx. 5 or 6' ft. into the pool where the water would fall. If that doesn't work out, we are looking to build a small grotto that maybe holds 4 adults inside of it with a nice waterfall going over it to add to privacy, kind of like the small corner pool I attached that I found from a user on this site : )

Over the next few months we are going to get several quotes and I know they will vary some maybe a little more or less and some a lot more for the same thing because maybe they market some type of "proprietary solution" that nobody else has etc.....should I fall for that bull or are there technologies or ways/better materials to build with that others may not use?

Another thing is, we want to put in another 40k SWG and large D.E. filter like I had at the last house because to be honest it made my pool sooooo much easier to care for and believe it or not my Pentair 40k SWG lasted me 10 years and was still going strong when I sold the house in September! Should I do this myself like I installed my last one or let the builder do it? I have a feeling they are going to charge me double the price but then I'm afraid they will say it voids the warranty. So then my options is to wait until warranty expires and then put it in OR put it in and not worry about warranty, OR suck it up and pay double the price? What to do ?

I think my biggest question in central California is where we are located, does anyone know the average rate for a pool like I described and any idea on approx. cost of features I mentioned is one feature much cheaper than the other etc.... or not worth it etc? And I did some posts that talk about going rates per sq. ft etc.. but is there a completed price or will the pool builder tell me how many sq. ft of materials when they quote us? Also, we were thinking of adding a spa, but are currently deciding not to, one of those reasons is because we had a neighbor at our last house who's pool had one and he said if here were to do it again, he would not add the spa and would put a external spa in if he wanted one and he said why but I don't remember now why.

Lastly, the first pool builder we are meeting with is an exclusive Jandy dealer. I was a big Pentair fan as I had no issues with their equipment, but is Jandy any good? What should I stay away from and how is there automation system compared to Pentair and should I install that myself or have pool builder do it for extra cost. I hooked up my last one so I'm not worried about it and I'm a techie :)

Sorry for the long post, but as you can see this is just the beginning and there will be A LOT to consider going forward. I've read a lot already on here about issues people had not have the slope shows in the agreements and they ended up being to steep etc....so I know to watch out for that. What else? Any insight on lessons learned from your inground pool build we would appreciate.

Oh ya and we'll post any updates we get from pool companies and then pics of course once house build and backyard is fenced to give a better picture.
 

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YippeeSkippy

Mod Squad
LifeTime Supporter
Jan 17, 2012
12,433
Evans, Georgia
Hiya! Ok, well your space is a little limited, but I can imagine an "L" shaped or freeform shaped pool in the far top right side (where your plan says "Lot 57". If you were to make it "L" shaped with the long side mimicking the fence line, you could probably fit it in nicely. What kind of depths are you thinking of? What do your girls like to do in a pool- just float, actually swim, maybe dive?

Definitely go with the SWG and DE filter again! I don't believe California builders have that anti-SWG mentality like Texas builders seem to have. Again, go big on each to simplify life.

Be aware that your waterfall idea is very cool, but will cause you to have to deal with rising pH frequently, unless you limit its use.

You want each return to be "home runned" back to the equipment pad on its own pipe, with Jandy never lube valves being used to control them.

Don't get suckered into a second (booster) pump for a cleaner. Waste of energy and inadequate cleaning compared to a robot. Check out www.maytronics.com for some nice robots. All you need is for the builder to put in some outlets near the pool. Buy the robot yourself and we can recommend models and sources later.

You want a Variable Speed Pump.

Calcium is the biggest bane to your pool. Learn how to keep the pH in line (lower end of recommended range) will help you.

I totally agree with the idea of a stand alone hot tub/spa. Sitting in a cement pool spa is fairly uncomfortable and kinda boring whereas a stand alone hot tub has smooth comfy body shaped seats and multiple levels of jets to massage and pummel your body with *hot* water.

That's all I can think of now.... but looking forward to your build and hoping your keep us updated.

Maddie :flower:
 

Jimrahbe

Mod Squad
TFP Expert
LifeTime Supporter
Jul 7, 2014
15,866
Bedford, TX
I would "assume" you can't build anything outside the dashed line...

I am a die-hard Pentair guy... I would find a builder that used Pentair equipment.. That said, if I was die-hard Jandy guy, I would find a pool builder that used Jandy..

Check out the latest Pentair IntelliCenter automation...

Jim R.
 

mihzyd777

Well-known member
Jun 10, 2009
49
Manteca, CA
Hiya! Ok, well your space is a little limited, but I can imagine an "L" shaped or freeform shaped pool in the far top right side (where your plan says "Lot 57". If you were to make it "L" shaped with the long side mimicking the fence line, you could probably fit it in nicely. What kind of depths are you thinking of? What do your girls like to do in a pool- just float, actually swim, maybe dive?

Definitely go with the SWG and DE filter again! I don't believe California builders have that anti-SWG mentality like Texas builders seem to have. Again, go big on each to simplify life.

Be aware that your waterfall idea is very cool, but will cause you to have to deal with rising pH frequently, unless you limit its use.

You want each return to be "home runned" back to the equipment pad on its own pipe, with Jandy never lube valves being used to control them.

Don't get suckered into a second (booster) pump for a cleaner. Waste of energy and inadequate cleaning compared to a robot. Check out www.maytronics.com for some nice robots. All you need is for the builder to put in some outlets near the pool. Buy the robot yourself and we can recommend models and sources later.

You want a Variable Speed Pump.

Calcium is the biggest bane to your pool. Learn how to keep the pH in line (lower end of recommended range) will help you.

I totally agree with the idea of a stand alone hot tub/spa. Sitting in a cement pool spa is fairly uncomfortable and kinda boring whereas a stand alone hot tub has smooth comfy body shaped seats and multiple levels of jets to massage and pummel your body with *hot* water.

That's all I can think of now.... but looking forward to your build and hoping your keep us updated.

Maddie :flower:
Hiya! Ok, well your space is a little limited, but I can imagine an "L" shaped or freeform shaped pool in the far top right side (where your plan says "Lot 57". If you were to make it "L" shaped with the long side mimicking the fence line, you could probably fit it in nicely. What kind of depths are you thinking of? What do your girls like to do in a pool- just float, actually swim, maybe dive?

Definitely go with the SWG and DE filter again! I don't believe California builders have that anti-SWG mentality like Texas builders seem to have. Again, go big on each to simplify life.

Be aware that your waterfall idea is very cool, but will cause you to have to deal with rising pH frequently, unless you limit its use.

You want each return to be "home runned" back to the equipment pad on its own pipe, with Jandy never lube valves being used to control them.

Don't get suckered into a second (booster) pump for a cleaner. Waste of energy and inadequate cleaning compared to a robot. Check out www.maytronics.com for some nice robots. All you need is for the builder to put in some outlets near the pool. Buy the robot yourself and we can recommend models and sources later.

You want a Variable Speed Pump.

Calcium is the biggest bane to your pool. Learn how to keep the pH in line (lower end of recommended range) will help you.

I totally agree with the idea of a stand alone hot tub/spa. Sitting in a cement pool spa is fairly uncomfortable and kinda boring whereas a stand alone hot tub has smooth comfy body shaped seats and multiple levels of jets to massage and pummel your body with *hot* water.

That's all I can think of now.... but looking forward to your build and hoping your keep us updated.

Maddie :flower:
So great point on the home run pipes....I'll be asking more about that as we get closer but are you saying the return lines and all that or only from the skimmer and 2 deep end skimmers? As for the PH rising, J figured it's already going to rise naturally because it will be salt water like our last pool unless it's much worse?
I totally hear ya on the Diol login cleaner we had a DX6 at the last house and loved it unfortunately we left it behind for new owners :( .
 

mihzyd777

Well-known member
Jun 10, 2009
49
Manteca, CA
The dotted line=what? Can you build the pool past the dotted lines?

I have ideas!! Need to know the answer to above though.
The dotted or dashed lines are the underground drainage system they are required to installed that can be moved as we build not a biggie. My yard goes to the very back solid lines with the little circles which is the fence and posts.
So let those ideas flow!!! Totally up for ideas! ;) Thanks!
 

mihzyd777

Well-known member
Jun 10, 2009
49
Manteca, CA
I would "assume" you can't build anything outside the dashed line...

I am a die-hard Pentair guy... I would find a builder that used Pentair equipment.. That said, if I was die-hard Jandy guy, I would find a pool builder that used Jandy..

Check out the latest Pentair IntelliCenter automation...

Jim R.
The dashed lines are just underground drainage and it can be moved if needed not a biggie. I did like my old pentair system dont really have much against Jandy, even though I had some small issues with my intelliflo pump because software needed updating, but it took 3 or 4 visits from tech whole under warranty bit once resolved all was good and I know the Pentair SWG can last at least 10 years ;)
 

kimkats

Mod Squad
LifeTime Supporter
Jul 10, 2012
43,356
Tallahassee, FL
So here are some more questions....can you shift the house to the left so it is lined up with the fence? That will give oh so much more yard to work with.
 

Jimrahbe

Mod Squad
TFP Expert
LifeTime Supporter
Jul 7, 2014
15,866
Bedford, TX
M,

I am pretty the dashed lines are the City's set back building lines and have nothing to do with drainage.. That is why the garage in front of the house is just touching the lines.. I would double check what is allow and what is not.. Just because you own the land does not mean you can build on it...

Thanks,

Jim R.
 

mihzyd777

Well-known member
Jun 10, 2009
49
Manteca, CA
M,

I am pretty the dashed lines are the City's set back building lines and have nothing to do with drainage.. That is why the garage in front of the house is just touching the lines.. I would double check what is allow and what is not.. Just because you own the land does not mean you can build on it...

Thanks,

Jim R.
Jim,

I thought the same thing and we were worried about that, but we and pool builder already clarified with builder that it is drainage lines they are required to put in. Only setback in front is 10 feet from sidewalk to front yard.
 

YippeeSkippy

Mod Squad
LifeTime Supporter
Jan 17, 2012
12,433
Evans, Georgia
So great point on the home run pipes....I'll be asking more about that as we get closer but are you saying the return lines and all that or only from the skimmer and 2 deep end skimmers? As for the PH rising, J figured it's already going to rise naturally because it will be salt water like our last pool unless it's much worse?
Your skimmers and any other drains need their own lines. This helps when you want to move water in one way or another, but also protects you down the road if anything should clog a line. You will still have a functioning pool and won't starve the pump of water. I like my simple returns being separated and individually valved so I alter the flow and direction of water when I wish.

As to the pH, with a new gunnite pool you'll be dealing with rising pH for the first 6 months or so, but to be honest my SWG doesn't tend to raise my pH over 7.8. It seems to linger there forever, and returns there when I lower it. A pH of 7.8 is still within acceptable levels, but I also don't run water features (fountains) as a rule.

Maddie :flower:
 

mihzyd777

Well-known member
Jun 10, 2009
49
Manteca, CA
Okay with that info here is my last question............do you want/need any "yard" for kids or pets?

Kim:kim:
Great questions :) So yes I was thinking the west side yard will be where I put some grass and a trampoline for my 3 girls and let the dogs run, but hey we are totally open to see what you got :) I was really thinking of doing pavers in the middle of the back yard but want to see more designs still and hear more ideas. Like I said we are totally open to ideas and appreciate them!

Thanks!

Mike
 

mihzyd777

Well-known member
Jun 10, 2009
49
Manteca, CA
Your skimmers and any other drains need their own lines. This helps when you want to move water in one way or another, but also protects you down the road if anything should clog a line. You will still have a functioning pool and won't starve the pump of water. I like my simple returns being separated and individually valved so I alter the flow and direction of water when I wish.

As to the pH, with a new gunnite pool you'll be dealing with rising pH for the first 6 months or so, but to be honest my SWG doesn't tend to raise my pH over 7.8. It seems to linger there forever, and returns there when I lower it. A pH of 7.8 is still within acceptable levels, but I also don't run water features (fountains) as a rule.

Maddie :flower:
Oh ok I get it now skippy so for the 2 floor drains and the skimmers run them all the way back on their own lines and bring them like that out of the ground and then you Jandy valves where the outputs meet into 1 line going to the pump right? Also what size pipe should I use 2.5" or 3"? Ya your right on the SWG mine really never rose above 7.8 either now that I think about it. Will a water feature/waterfall really throw it off and how fast?
Thanks!

Mike
 

YippeeSkippy

Mod Squad
LifeTime Supporter
Jan 17, 2012
12,433
Evans, Georgia
Oh ok I get it now skippy so for the 2 floor drains and the skimmers run them all the way back on their own lines and bring them like that out of the ground and then you Jandy valves where the outputs meet into 1 line going to the pump right?
Right!

Also what size pipe should I use 2.5" or 3"?
I can't answer that, sorry. :(. Pipe size decisions rest on some variables such as distance, pump, etc. That's all *I* know, LOL. Others here can advise you on pipe size.

Ya your right on the SWG mine really never rose above 7.8 either now that I think about it. Will a water feature/waterfall really throw it off and how fast?
A large wide water feature dropping lots of little drops of water in to the pool will surely raise your pH unless you don't run it continuously. You'd just have to see, and perhaps be prepared to treat it with MA.

Maddie :flower:
 

mihzyd777

Well-known member
Jun 10, 2009
49
Manteca, CA
Right!



I can't answer that, sorry. :(. Pipe size decisions rest on some variables such as distance, pump, etc. That's all *I* know, LOL. Others here can advise you on pipe size.



A large wide water feature dropping lots of little drops of water in to the pool will surely raise your pH unless you don't run it continuously. You'd just have to see, and perhaps be prepared to treat it with MA.

Maddie :flower:
Thanks Maddie :)
 

kimkats

Mod Squad
LifeTime Supporter
Jul 10, 2012
43,356
Tallahassee, FL
I am working on ideas now. I will share them whem I am done. It may be Friday though due to home stuff like I am sure you are enjoying right now.

Three girls?? How old are they? What kind of dogs?

Kim:kim:
 

mihzyd777

Well-known member
Jun 10, 2009
49
Manteca, CA
I am working on ideas now. I will share them whem I am done. It may be Friday though due to home stuff like I am sure you are enjoying right now.

Three girls?? How old are they? What kind of dogs?

Kim:kim:
Totally understand ool. Girls are 5,7, 12 and we have 2 minature schnauzers and a pomeranian.
Looking forward to seeing some ideas thank you and to all so far. I certainly dont want to jump into blind.