Basic BBB in a nutshell

ktdave

LifeTime Supporter
May 8, 2007
888
Katy, TX
#1
This explains BBB concisely

CarlD said:
It's actually all simpler than most people think. There's no magic, no secret formula.

Basically, you worry about Chlorine and pH--and everything else is ancillary to that.

Chlorine is controlled with bleach. Levels can safely be much higher than pool stores and pool books tell you. You can use nothing but bleach as your chlorine forever.

pH is raised with ordinary 20 Mule Team Borax, lowered with ordinary Muriatic Acid (available at hardware stores and Home Depot/Lowes).

Total Alkalinity is merely (mainly) a buffer to keep pH stable--raise T/A with Arm&Hammer baking soda. Lower it--well that's trickier.

CYA/Stabilizer keeps chlorine from breaking down too fast. But it's a 2-edged sword and the CYA level affects the ideal chlorine level. Easy to add, tough to lower

Calcium is needed for concrete pools, irrelevant for vinyl pools.

Most other chemicals are useless junk. The ones that aren't junk are ONLY useful if something's messed up.

"Shock" is a verb, not a noun. You don't buy "Shock". You "Shock" your pool by raising the chlorine level high enough to kill everything growing in it.

And you can't do anything right without a proper test kit.

That's it in what? Nine lines.
Thanks CarlD
 

Deep Blue

Active member
Mar 14, 2008
32
#2
Easy to read and understand

Why cant you write the start, the maintaining and the laughs on pools. what great and easy to read material... not once did i switch off...

well done

p.s. when you say chlorine can be higher then pool stores say, what figures are we looking at? 5-7ppm ?
 

waste

TFP Expert
LifeTime Supporter
Mar 29, 2007
4,160
Coastalish 'down easter'
#3
Deep, welcome to TFP!

There are charts which will tell you how high you can safely go with a given level of CYA. Pool stores, and other sources, fail to keep in mind that the cya (stabilizer) slows down all of the chlorine's reactions. As such, the 'safe/ optimal' amount of 'free chlorine' in the water is dependent upon the cya level. I'm pretty sure that the chart is in the 'sticky' area of this forum.

Again, welcome to TFP - you will save yourself a lot of money and many headaches by reading this forum and following the advice given here!!!

Please read the 'stickies' and never hesitate to ask a question ("The only dumb/ stupid question is the one not asked"!!!) - we'll be here for you to help keep your pool 'trouble free'
 

chem geek

TFP Expert
LifeTime Supporter
Mar 28, 2007
12,082
San Rafael, CA USA
#4
Deep Blue,

It's (approximately) the ratio of FC to CYA that determines chlorine's effectiveness -- its rate of disinfection and oxidation. So technically, 10 ppm FC with 100 ppm CYA is the same as 3 ppm with 30 ppm CYA and is the same as about 0.1 ppm FC (actually 0.09) with no CYA (the latter obviously not calculated with the FC/CYA rule since CYA is zero). Those that swim in an indoor pool with no CYA and 2 ppm FC are exposing themselves to effective chlorine levels equivalent to an outdoor pool with 20 ppm FC and 30 ppm CYA or with 65 ppm FC and 100 ppm CYA.

The only real purpose of an absolute FC limit would be if you drank the water since the FC determines the total amount of chlorine you would be ingesting though the FC/CYA ratio would determine how quickly it will react with chemicals it encounters. The EPA has such a limit at 4 ppm FC, but that is for drinking water where it is assumed you are drinking quarts every day so obviously this doesn't happen with pool water.

The chart waste refers to is here from The Stickies. We don't even list a maximum though Ben's original chart had a maximum that was about double what we show as the "Min FC". You generally want to use the lowest amount of chlorine that is sufficient to prevent algae and need to account for chlorine loss in figuring how much chlorine you need to start with each day (or the night before).

Richard
 

waste

TFP Expert
LifeTime Supporter
Mar 29, 2007
4,160
Coastalish 'down easter'
#5
Richard, thanks for the 'full story' !!

Given my limited understanding of chemistry, I can only give the 'boiled down' info on such things and rely on you and the others with a chemistry background to fill in the gaps :)

I'd like to thank you for filling in the MANY gaps in my understanding of what's going on in the pool water - it's enabled me to give the 'boiled down' version :-D

I hope you and your wife are well and that your pool is all set for another season!!
 

austinnichols101

LifeTime Supporter
Feb 9, 2008
38
Miami, FL
#6
chem geek said:
Deep Blue,

It's (approximately) the ratio of FC to CYA that determines chlorine's effectiveness -- it's rate of disinfection and oxidation. So technically, 10 ppm FC with 100 ppm CYA is the same as 3 ppm with 30 ppm CYA and is the same as about 0.1 ppm FC (actually 0.09) with no CYA (the latter obviously not calculated with the FC/CYA rule since CYA is zero). Those that swim in an indoor pool with no CYA and 2 ppm FC are exposing themselves to effective chlorine levels equivalent to an outdoor pool with 20 ppm FC and 30 ppm CYA or with 65 ppm FC and 100 ppm CYA.

The only real purpose of an absolute FC limit would be if you drank the water since the FC determines the total amount of chlorine you would be ingesting though the FC/CYA ratio would determine how quickly it will react with chemicals it encounters. The EPA has such a limit at 4 ppm FC, but that is for drinking water where it is assumed you are drinking quarts every day so obviously this doesn't happen with pool water.

The chart waste refers to is here from The Stickies. We don't even list a maximum though Ben's original chart had a maximum that was about double what we show as the "Min FC". You generally want to use the lowest amount of chlorine that is sufficient to prevent algae and need to account for chlorine loss in figuring how much chlorine you need to start with each day (or the night before).

Richard
IMO, the above should be a stickie. Haven't seen it described in this way anywhere else...
 

chem geek

TFP Expert
LifeTime Supporter
Mar 28, 2007
12,082
San Rafael, CA USA
#7
waste said:
I hope you and your wife are well and that your pool is all set for another season!!
Thanks, we're doing well and hope you are as well. We just turned on the solar, but with our iffy weather it may be a few weeks before it'll be worth cranking up the temp some more with gas. At that point, my wife will switch from the over-chlorinated indoor pool at a local (private) community center with 2 ppm FC and no CYA that destroys the elasticity of her swimsuits every year to our own outdoor pool with 3.5 ppm FC and 30 ppm CYA that allows her to wear a duplicate swimsuit for 4-5 seasons with minimal degradation of elasticity. She also appreciates how our pool doesn't dry out or flake her skin nor frizz her hair as much. I won't get into the difference in disinfection by-products.

Richard
 

Deep Blue

Active member
Mar 14, 2008
32
#8
Thanks

Yes thank you to all of you... very kind to give your time to teach and help people. i appreciate it.
also thanx for both versions as when i got onto the more detailed version i could actually understand it.. very well done.
Tag team haha

Did you say you have a solar heater?
Thats funny as i am making one.

32mm pvc by 1 meter - 1) water flows from pump to a main tube.
4mm pvc by 150 meters long - 2) the water then splits up into 150 tubes, that are 4mm diameter, and 1 meter length each
32mm pvc by 1 meter - 3) then water returns though another main tube back to the intex 10ft pool inlet

i looked at so many on the net, efficiency is in parallel, i believe i pretended i had a 12ft pool and based the amount of pipe surface area, that i needed to equal the pool surface area like that. i came up with with something like hose surface area=15.1m2 and pool surface area= 9m2. thats right i like it hot haha. well i hope it works out. my pump is 330gal (uk units).

Funny thing is its so stormy with the twister that came down here that I've filled the pool and now it just been raining on it since... lol .. i know i know shock shock with chlorine bleach haha

thanx again