Baquacil conversion

pgatherum

Active member
Jun 8, 2017
31
Concord NH
Last night:
FC 9
CC .5
This morning:
FC 8
CC .5
CYA 55---creeping up, was 48 yesterday--I assume it is still dissolving in the water since last dose was 6/20
ph 7.5
TA 70
CH 100
Your thoughts?
 

Texas Splash

Mod Squad
TFP Expert
LifeTime Supporter
Assuming your water is still crystal clear, that would seem to indicate you passed. While all the numbers are right on the borderline, they are passing criteria. If it's sunny in your area, today would be a good judge to see how the FC reacts as the day goes on. You should expect to lose anywhere from 2-4 ppm of FC in 24 hrs, but anything more than 4 would indicate a problem. While the OCLT is a fantastic yardstick to rule-out algae, there have been some rare times when a pool still required a SLAM. I'd watch it for now and simply assume your CYA is 60 when referencing the Chlorine/CYA Chart.
 

pgatherum

Active member
Jun 8, 2017
31
Concord NH
Thanks for your advice. Cloudy day, backwashed filter, though really did not need it. Added a little more water and @ 12:30pm FC is zero....I am so perplexed. I added 83 oz 10% to bring up to maintenance for CYA as hoping grandsons are coming to see who can be the first to jump in my pool. I work in a school so on summer vacation now so will slam starting tonight. Thanks again for your thoughts and guidance. I feel that I can't even be away for half a day, never mind a weekend with this strange issue. Will keep you updated. Paula
 

Texas Splash

Mod Squad
TFP Expert
LifeTime Supporter
FC dropped to zero in just a few hours? That is very odd. Paula, I have to ask a silly question, but it's best to be sure. Are you sure you are doing and reading the CYA test properly? If you only lost 1 ppm of FC overnight in darkness, and lost close to 8-9 ppm in just a few hours by lunch, that sounds like the sun to me. So let me just make sure this sounds like what you have been doing:
Proper lighting is critical for the CYA test, so you want to test for CYA outside on a bright sunny day. Taylor recommends standing outside with your back to the sun and the view tube in the shade of your body. Use the mixing bottle to combine/gently mix the required amounts of pool water and R-0013 reagent, let sit for 30 seconds, then gently mix again. Then, while holding the skinny tube with the black dot at waist level, begin squirting the mixed solution into the skinny tube. Watch the black dot until it completely disappears. Once it disappears, record the CYA reading. After the first test, you can pour the mixed solution from the skinny view tube back to the mixing bottle, shake, and do the same test a second, third, or fourth time to instill consistency in your technique, become more comfortable with the testing, and validate the CYA reading.
You don't have a salt water pool, so your CYA really didn't need to be much higher than 40 in your area I wouldn't think. You seem to be saying the black dot is disappearing quite fast when looking down the viewing tube to get such a high reading. I wonder if it's not the other way around or something where your CYA is actually low? I'm a bit confused myself now, and the lack of CYA protecting FC from the sun is the only thing that makes sense. So if any of this seems odd, let me know or explain so we can ensure the CYA testing and reading is spot-on.
 

pgatherum

Active member
Jun 8, 2017
31
Concord NH
I have not been testing CYA outside and have been mixing/shaking the solution vigorously. I will try testing outdoors and mixing gently. That said, after having done the Baquacil conversion successfully, I know I put the white CYA pellets in a white cotton sock, squeezed it occasionally and noted it did take >36 hours do totally dissolve. So I know there is some in pool water and it is showing up on the testing. And in reading, the CYA stays in the water, doesn't evaporate or degrade and can accumulate if one uses the pucks that contain CYA. Yesterday I tested FC 5 times, and it was down to zero @ 11:30am so I added the correct amount per Pool Math. The two grandsons played in the water and when I rechecked at 6pm, again FC zero. At this point the only other issue with my pool is the loud gurgling ( sounds like shaking rocks in a soda can) and air that is expelled from the return probably at least every 7-10 minutes. I bought a new pump strainer cover used Magic Lube and replaced the old one; and there is no air bubbles in the pump strainer. I also think the return port of my Hayward filter valve must have a crack as it is leaking, even though I tried twice, then bought a new connector and tried twice again with Teflon tape and couldn't stop the leak. I'm thinking that is not pertinent to the pool water losing FC during the day. And I have purchased a new Valve replacement ( from the Pool store with the store credit from the Baquacil:) so I will be replacing,even though the other valve was used for only 3 short summer seasons of less than 10 weeks each. I appreciate all your support, thoughts and suggestions. I try to be positive but really wonder why maintaining my pool is not following what one would expect, when using TFP's procedures. Thanks again, Paula

- - - Updated - - -

Could there possibly be something abnormal about the reagents in my kit??? I purchased TFP100 & XL, so have plenty to test FC, but have used over 1/2 the bottle of CYA testing reagent so far.
 

pgatherum

Active member
Jun 8, 2017
31
Concord NH
Lost no FC this morning:
FC 7
CC 0
1 pm
FC 0
CYA 50 --done outside on sunny afternoon
Added 95 ozs 12.5%
So I am going through a lot of chlorine.
I used Clorax pool & spar Chlorine stabilizer--Label says "principal functioning agent Cyanuric Acid 100.00%
Any other suggestions?? I am worrying about the pool chlorine all the time, especially when I am not home to add in the middle of the day. For me, this has not been a trouble free pool. I appreciated all the instructions for the conversion, but what is it that I can't keep liquid chlorine from degrading from the sun now...Thanks again for your support, i appreciate it. Do you think I should try trichlor pucks? I do drain down the pool below the return at the end of the summer and the level usually gets lower with the snow load on the cover..so I'm thinking I end of adding at least 1/4 new water when I open in the spring. Would this keep the CYA level at a manageable level, knowing the pool is open usually only 10 weeks/year. Let me know your thoughts. I am open to any and all suggestions to keeping my pool water free of algae and safe to swim in. Paula
 

Texas Splash

Mod Squad
TFP Expert
LifeTime Supporter
Hi Paula. I agree something is not right. With a CYA of 50 in your area, there's no reason for FC to drop to zero in just a few hours by 1:00PM. It was about 1.5 weeks ago when you posted that you passed the 2 OCLTs, changed the sand, and that the conversion was essentially complete. I didn't see or ask however if you maintained that FC of 15 for those two OCLTs. I'm assuming you did, but I didn't see it noted. As we discussed at the beginning of this process, the combination of Baqua and unknown amounts of CDX can complicate the conversion. I have a bad feeling that some of the residual baqua/CDX didn't get 100% eliminated. It's the only thing I can think of that would eat that chlorine since you have done post-OCLTs and passed those as well. When someone fills their pool with brand new water, there are only two enemies - the sun and organics/algae. The stabilizer you used should be just fine, and if I recall your water is otherwise clear. So to me I have a feeling that somewhere in your pool or system there may be some residual baqua that's robbing you of chlorine.

I can discuss this with some of our TFP counterparts and compare thoughts. The 15 ppm FC requirement during the conversion is on the assumption there is no stabilizer and knowing the CDX can inhibit the conversion. Now you have a CYA of 50, so even a regular SLAM FC level of "20" is probably not enough to ensure sterilization of the water from that baqua/CDX product. But I'll ring the bell and see if our chemist experts have any thoughts on possible options. We'll get back with you shortly Paula.
 

Leebo

Admin
TFP Expert
LifeTime Supporter
Jul 21, 2011
8,692
Eastern Ohio
Paula,
I quickly skimmed your thread so if I ask something that's already been answered please forgive me. :)

So it appears like 2 weeks ago or so you finished the conversion. You did change all the sand correct? Next you had a few days where all was well correct??? After these few days your FC would drop to zero very quickly during the day even though it remains in the water overnight. About 3 days ago you tested your cya and it was about 50ppm'ish.

Is all this correct?
 

JoyfulNoise

TFP Expert
Platinum Supporter
May 23, 2015
15,475
Tucson, AZ
At this point the only other issue with my pool is the loud gurgling ( sounds like shaking rocks in a soda can) and air that is expelled from the return probably at least every 7-10 minutes. I bought a new pump strainer cover used Magic Lube and replaced the old one; and there is no air bubbles in the pump strainer. I also think the return port of my Hayward filter valve must have a crack as it is leaking, even though I tried twice, then bought a new connector and tried twice again with Teflon tape and couldn't stop the leak.
I'd like to know more about this issue? Was this happening prior to your conversion? There should be no loud gurgling sounds or air being expelled from the pool returns. Also, a leaking filter valve is not good and should be fixed as soon as possible. While this may have nothing to do with the chemistry directly, lose of prime in the pump and poor water circulation can be a problem for the overall pool sanitation.

One other test I would suggest is I'd like to see an OCLT performed tonight at slightly higher FC. When the sun goes down (no sunlight on the pool), add enough liquid chlorine to raise your FC to 10ppm. Please measure the FC after adding the liquid chlorine to ensure that you have indeed gotten to 10ppm or slightly above that. Also, please use a 25mL water sample and two scoops of powder which will then give a resolution of 0.2ppm/drop. I want to know the FC level as exact as possible. Then measure again first thing in the morning before any sunlight is hitting the pool.

When you take a water sample, make sure it is from the deepest part of the pool and put your whole arm in to get it. You want to pull a sample from at least 18" below the surface.

Please report back with the results.
 

pgatherum

Active member
Jun 8, 2017
31
Concord NH
Conversion completed and sand was changed and CYA added 6/18/17. I also added 8oz Borax to bring 7.2 ph up to balance before adding the CYA. On 6/19 the FC dropped to 2.5 during the day, but every day since 6/20 it has dropped to zero, as I was away at work and tested in the early evening when I got home and added liquid chlorine. This morning FC 9 cc 0 CYA 50. Will test later today. Thanks for your help. Paula
 

pgatherum

Active member
Jun 8, 2017
31
Concord NH
Hi Matt,

After studying the pool and return I think I have discovered the cause of the loud gurgling noise. The return is so forceful that it is creating a vortex ( looks like a little tornado) on the surface of the pool, and when the vortex gets longer and moves to and makes contact with the return water, it sucks air in and down the vortex hence the loud gurgling and shooting of this surface air out in the return flow as bubbles. It just looks like it comes from the return, but is really originating an inch or two from the return eyeball. Eureka !! So... can I run the return without the eyeball?? Are there larger eyeballs? What do you think? Does this make sense?
Also just added liquid bleach to raise 10ppm or so. Will test using 25 ml and x.2, then recheck in early am using the same procedure. Really appreciate all the help and support, Paula

I have already tried moving the eyeball to adjust the direction of the flow with no real improvement. I don't think poor circulation is an issue at all.
 

JoyfulNoise

TFP Expert
Platinum Supporter
May 23, 2015
15,475
Tucson, AZ
Hi Paula,

WOW, that sounds like a crazy amount of water flow to cause a vortex like that?? Is your pump a single speed pump? What's the horsepower on the pump? How many returns are there in this pool? Are you absolutely sure your filter multi-port valve is set to "FILTER" and not "RECIRCULATE"?

Please do the OCLT as carefully as possible. I know it will be a lot of drops of R-0871 if you go above 10ppm, but I really want to see a precise loss value. The 10mL water sample is good for day-to-day checking but, for something like this, I want to make sure we're not missing anything.
 

pabeader

LifeTime Supporter
TFP Guide
May 14, 2015
4,349
Cartersville Ga
Some eyeballs can be turned around and the backside has a larger hole. That should spread the force around and stop the vortex.
 

pgatherum

Active member
Jun 8, 2017
31
Concord NH
Hi Matt,

I assume the Hayward Power-Flo LX pump is a single speed, it always "sounds the same" (model SP1580X15TLFP). Horsepower is 1.5 and there is only one return and yes, the valve is on filter. OCLT results:

Last evening @ 7:05pm
FC 11.4 (57 drops x.2)
This morning @ 5am
FC 10.8 (54 x.2)
Appears to have passed the OCLT-- only difference between overnight and daylight hours is the pump runs 12 hours during the day, but I do shut it off overnight.
Quite a mystery as to way I can't maintain FC during the daylight hours... Thanks again for all the help,support and guidance! Paula
 

Noobpool

Well-known member
Apr 5, 2017
64
Cullman , Al
I have one question that hindered me when I was doing my first slam. Are you taking pool math FC based off the chlorine you add or waiting 30ish minutes after last addition of the night to test again?
 

pgatherum

Active member
Jun 8, 2017
31
Concord NH
No, I did not have a scale, so used a dry measure cup & added 40 oz initially, then added additional 2.5oz.
This cloudy afternoon @ 3:15pm FC 5.5 ( dropped from 10.8 in 10 hrs today)