Bacillus thuringiensis var kirstaki

jimim

Bronze Supporter
Jun 20, 2016
2,462
NE/Pa
They are using this to spray our properties this spring via aircraft to control the gypsy moths. I was going to opt out of it will affect my pool water. It’s from a naturally occurring bacteria. Does anyone know if this will throw off my water chemistry? I have no trees and I spray myself.
 

jimim

Bronze Supporter
Jun 20, 2016
2,462
NE/Pa
Ok cool guys. I’ll wait to hear from him.

If I opt out it means 250 feet around me doesn’t get treated. On both sides and across the street I have neighbors. Wood behind. I don’t want to mess up my neighbors if they wanted to be sprayed. I don’t want to be that guy but I also don’t want to jack up my water. Plus I treat myself. They told me when I opted out they were spraying cause someone in my area requested it so that’s why I’m asking here. If it’s a close neighbor I might reconsider if it doesn’t mess up my water.
 

setsailsoon

LifeTime Supporter
TFP Guide
Oct 25, 2015
1,586
Stuart/FL
This is a common bacteria used for insect control. It's very effective against certain of the foliage damaging larvae. It's generally harmless to humans and in my opinion a great way to treat. Even though harmless to humans, chlorine will kill it quickly and you avoid the use of pesticides that remain in the environment (and your pool) for much longer. If we had a natural treatment like this for all damaging insects life would be great but it is only effective on a narrow range of insect larvae.

I hope this helps.

Chris
 

JoyfulNoise

TFP Expert
Platinum Supporter
May 23, 2015
15,885
Tucson, AZ
BT is a naturally occurring soil bacteria so there’s no threat to people, although I would leave the area when the spraying occurs just to be safe. When we were growing up as kids, there were landscape companies hired by the town we lived in that would truck-spray this stuff everywhere.

My only concern would be that BT is often delivered as a water emulsion with surfactants added to make sure the droplets coat everything. While many surfactants will break down under chlorine exposure, some can persist for a while. It may or may not affect your pool chemistry. It’s hard to know unless you get an exact formulation.

When I use BT around my plants, it’s in a powdered delivery system that includes DE. The combination of BT and DE rips up the guts of the swallowtail larvae (Orange Dogs) that plague my citrus trees. I also use Neem oil for general pest control. I don’t use synthetic pesticides around my garden and I only spot spray glyphosate for weed control as needed (a weed torch or weeding pole works fine in most cases).
 
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jimim

Bronze Supporter
Jun 20, 2016
2,462
NE/Pa
Ok I’m going to pass cause I don’t know how it’s being delivered. I just know by aircraft spraying. I really don’t want to deal with it and messing up my water. I’ll ask my 3 neighbors if they were the ones who wanted it and go from there. I’m assuming it’s not one of them but the 1 guy up the street which means He will still get sprayed. I’m assuming the 3 guys around me didn’t ask for it cause they barely do anything woth their yards. Thanks for all the info.

I’m just going to pass. Easier to avoid issues that way.
 

jimim

Bronze Supporter
Jun 20, 2016
2,462
NE/Pa
That would mean pulling out my winter mesh cover. That’s a pretty good idea. Would it work keeping it out of the cover is mesh. I would assume yes if I take it right off and clean it then?
 

setsailsoon

LifeTime Supporter
TFP Guide
Oct 25, 2015
1,586
Stuart/FL
Folks,

The comments here on this illustrate the breadth of expertise on this site. I continue to be amazed at this. I've always considered myself to have a good foundation in chemistry but it's nothing compared to people on here.

On the aerial spraying, how do you "opt out" yard by yard and why are they doing this? I've been in the timber business since the 80's. Moths have never been a concern to timber growth in my experience but there must be some issue affecting your community that requires this. It's not cheap to do an aerial spray. I'd try to find out what it is and weigh the benefits against any potential negative impact. Maybe you'll decide the benefit is worth the effort to mitigate any negative impact to your pool. I've watched aerial spraying and the spray pattern doesn't appear to have great precision even with the new helicopter sprayers. Even if they spray right over your property the amount that gets in your pool must be very tiny and worst case you just raise the FC level and monitor closely for a day or two... just my $.02 and probably worth about that.

Good luck to you whatever you decide.

Chris
 

Oly

Gold Supporter
Jun 28, 2017
1,179
Fresno, CA
Cover your water with a cheap plastic tarp on application day to ease your mind. Air application volumes range from 5 to 15 gallons per acre so not much on your pool.
 

JoyfulNoise

TFP Expert
Platinum Supporter
May 23, 2015
15,885
Tucson, AZ
Folks,

The comments here on this illustrate the breadth of expertise on this site. I continue to be amazed at this. I've always considered myself to have a good foundation in chemistry but it's nothing compared to people on here.

On the aerial spraying, how do you "opt out" yard by yard and why are they doing this? I've been in the timber business since the 80's. Moths have never been a concern to timber growth in my experience but there must be some issue affecting your community that requires this. It's not cheap to do an aerial spray. I'd try to find out what it is and weigh the benefits against any potential negative impact. Maybe you'll decide the benefit is worth the effort to mitigate any negative impact to your pool. I've watched aerial spraying and the spray pattern doesn't appear to have great precision even with the new helicopter sprayers. Even if they spray right over your property the amount that gets in your pool must be very tiny and worst case you just raise the FC level and monitor closely for a day or two... just my $.02 and probably worth about that.

Good luck to you whatever you decide.

Chris
The Gypsy Moth caterpillar, and related species, reproduce at phenomenal rates and one seasons worth of the caterpillar can completely defoliate the trees in an area. Before BT spraying, there was a summer when the trees in our yard were completely defoliated and it literally looked like late autumn in August. We lost several trees around our yard that year.

They are nasty, disgusting little critters that form huge tent cocoons with hundreds of caterpillars in them and they have very few natural predators. We used to pour lighter fluid on the tent cocoons and set them ablaze. Or we would put cherry bombs in then and blow them up. The history is that the species was brought over from Europe in attempt to create a silk worm hybrid that could survive here in the US. They escaped their breeders (easily) and they found a perfect home in the Northeastern US - delicious hardwood deciduous trees and no predator in sight. They are an invasive species and many areas spray for them as they can destroy forests.
 
Last edited:

setsailsoon

LifeTime Supporter
TFP Guide
Oct 25, 2015
1,586
Stuart/FL
The Gypsy Moth caterpillar, and related species, reproduce at phenomenal rates and one seasons worth of the caterpillar can completely defoliate the trees in an area. Before BT spraying, there was a summer when the trees in our yard were completely defoliated and it literally looked like late autumn in August. We lost several trees around our yard that year.

They are nasty, disgusting little critters that form huge tent cocoons with hundreds of caterpillars in them and they have very few natural predators. We used to pour lighter fluid on the tent cocoons and set them ablaze. Or we would put cherry bombs in then and blow them up. The history is that the species was brought over from Europe in attempt to create a silk worm hybrid that could survive here in the US. They escaped their breeders (easily) and they found a perfect home in the Northeastern US - delicious hardwood deciduous trees and no predator in sight. They are an invasive species and many areas spray for them as they can destroy forests.[/QUOTE

Wow Matt that sounds awful! Visions of burned up caterpillars and exploded cocoons sound like a real good horror movie scene! I didn't realize how bad this could get. Sounds like more fodder for the "tolerate/mitigate" the spray get rid of these monsters option!

Thanks for the info... I continue to be amazed on this site.

Chris
 

jimim

Bronze Supporter
Jun 20, 2016
2,462
NE/Pa
yes we got hit very very hard the past 2 years. i guess they are spraying certain areas each year based on funding. my area is up this year. i was told it was cause someone in my neighborhood requested it, but after talking with my dad who knows most of the people well on planning and zoning they said my area was up this year for spraying.

i'll call the guy tomorrow. he was pretty nice to talk to. and ask about the surfactant.

thanks guys for all the help.

i don't wanton sound like i'm being really really picky but i work hard to keep my levels up to snuff for this place. lol i'll call him tomorrow.

thanks!
 

jimim

Bronze Supporter
Jun 20, 2016
2,462
NE/Pa
Folks,

The comments here on this illustrate the breadth of expertise on this site. I continue to be amazed at this. I've always considered myself to have a good foundation in chemistry but it's nothing compared to people on here.

On the aerial spraying, how do you "opt out" yard by yard and why are they doing this? I've been in the timber business since the 80's. Moths have never been a concern to timber growth in my experience but there must be some issue affecting your community that requires this. It's not cheap to do an aerial spray. I'd try to find out what it is and weigh the benefits against any potential negative impact. Maybe you'll decide the benefit is worth the effort to mitigate any negative impact to your pool. I've watched aerial spraying and the spray pattern doesn't appear to have great precision even with the new helicopter sprayers. Even if they spray right over your property the amount that gets in your pool must be very tiny and worst case you just raise the FC level and monitor closely for a day or two... just my $.02 and probably worth about that.

Good luck to you whatever you decide.

Chris
the opt out yard by yard is actually a 250 foot boundary added to my lot in all directions to try and not hit my property so that means if my neighbors wanted it i would be blocking them out. i mean i care and all but again if it was going to wreck havoc on my chemistry i don't care if i opt them out also. but i highly highly doubt either of the people on each side of me wanted it. they don't touch their yard really except fertilizing it.
 

scdaren

Bronze Supporter
May 20, 2018
343
Clovis, CA
I think with the amount that would potentially get sprayed on the pool, you don't have any risk of it wreaking havoc on your chemistry. If it did, then there would be much greater concerns with it being sprayed all over the local environment, and ending up in storm drains, etc. The surfactant being used is likely something that is considered safe to use on food crops. You probably have worse stuff, in greater quantities, getting into your pool through sunblock and other pollutants blowing around in the air.
 

jimim

Bronze Supporter
Jun 20, 2016
2,462
NE/Pa
They don’t know the surfactant causexthey only do the survey forcthe spraying. It’s really no big deal. I asked my 4 closest neighbors and the 1 is also opting out and the other 2 didn’t even have a clue and the other 1 said no big deal. Exactly what I figured. So oh well I’m passing just to be safe.