Another SWG issues thread.....

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lojac963

lojac963

Member
Jul 30, 2023
8
Arizona
New member, first post. Glad to be here.
I will try to provide as much background as possible for everyone.

Pool is 14k gallon, Pebbletec, Hayward components/Aquarite salt system, VS pump running high for 5 hours then low for 8 hours, in floor cleaning, cyclone pre-filter (I will add all my pool info to my signature)

I consider myself fairly competent in electrical and maintaining my own pool. Some backstory, chemistry is generally always in check with the exception of calcium given our ridiculously hard water where I am at. This includes salt level which is currently 3800 tested by Taylor drop kit.

We have gone through I believe 4-5 salt cells within the 8 years of owning the pool. I just contributed it to the cost of salt pools. Apparently, these should last 5-7 years. 2 SWGs were Hayward and the rest were generic brands which typically get great reviews. Current SWG, Blue Works T15 is on its way out again, only reading 1900 salt and not generating. This cell is only 14 months old.

I have previously checked everything including the thermistor on the Hayward board. I even bought a new board and replaced mine to no avail so put the old board back in and kept the new board for the future. There are no typical tell tail signs of anything on the board itself causing issues from what I've read here and online through troubleshooting the board.

The ONLY thing I can think of which is killing my SWGs I just read yesterday the pump and salt system should be on dedicated power feeds. Well, mine is not, power comes into the Aquarite box which pigtails to the board then continues onto the pump. Do you think any spikes from the pump turning on could be killing the cells? Is there enough safety built into the board to prevent that? I'm tempted to just pull a dedicated feed for the pump and see what happens.

When the salt cells are new there are no issues whatsoever, they just do not last. Current cell is a Blue Works T15 which is only 14 months old and failing as mentioned above. As I read here, I changed the Aquarite system to a T5 and now it is reading a salt level of 3100 and generating without issue.

Cell is always routinely cleaned with MA. I was originally using a 4:1 ratio of water/MA but read that can impact plate life so I started doing even less MA yet the cells still don't last. I read on here that a cleaning vinegar can be used as well so I'm going to move to that as well.

Also read that the SWG should be mounted vertically with VS pumps, is that something I should do? It's horizontal and I keep the belly of it towards the ground so the plates are hopefully covered while the pump is in low mode.

Here's system info while pump is running:

4200
91
26.6
5.76
45P
-4300
AL-0
r1.59
T-5 (cell is actually a T15)

Sorry for the ridiculous long post and info. I'm literally at a loss at this point. My wife wants me to just convert the pool to normal chlorine tablets, but I really don't want to at this point. Any help or suggestions is greatly appreciated. Thanks!
 
wireform said:
You sure have lots of SWCG troubles but first we need the answers as per @Rancho Cost-a-Lotta as most SWCG issues go back to cheistry. Your cleaning the cell points to out of balance levels.
Click to expand...
Calcium is out of control where I live due to hard water. A couple years ago I added a soft water system to the house and luckily the autofill was plumbed into the feed yet the calcium levels remain off the chart. The cells will have some deposits when cleaned but nothing terrible like I've seen online. Generally one acid bath and they are completely clean
 
Thank you for posting that info. The SWG is properly rated for your pool volume . Your CYA level is appropriate for your area. Your FC is a little low, but I assume that's because you're having difficulties with your SWG. CH and TA levels are high and likely contribute to the issue you have with scale in the cell. Part of the premature wear can be attributed to utilizing acid for cleaning the cell plates. Lowering your TA to 60 and CH to the lower end of recommended levels will help extend the life of your cell. Test your softened fill water for CH level. If it's not working, get it fixed.

I would steer clear of generic replacement cells.

lojac963 said:
The ONLY thing I can think of which is killing my SWGs I just read yesterday the pump and salt system should be on dedicated power feeds. Well, mine is not, power comes into the Aquarite box which pigtails to the board then continues onto the pump. Do you think any spikes from the pump turning on could be killing the cells? Is there enough safety built into the board to prevent that? I'm tempted to just pull a dedicated feed for the pump and see what happens.
Click to expand...
Lets see if @JamesW or @ajw22 can comment...
 
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lojac963 said:
Also read that the SWG should be mounted vertically with VS pumps
Click to expand...
I forgot to comment on this. I have not seen this recommendation. It is recommended that the cell be mounted with the hump down when used with vs pumps, as you mentioned. Can you point to the source of the information?
 
Rancho Cost-a-Lotta said:
I forgot to comment on this. I have not seen this recommendation. It is recommended that the cell be mounted with the hump down when used with vs pumps, as you mentioned. Can you point to the source of the information?
Click to expand...
The vertical installation part I've never heard of as they can be vertical or horizontal but the hump down with vs pumps with a horizontal installation is due to the slow rpm and to make sure the plates are fully submerged.
 
lojac963 said:
We have gone through I believe 4-5 salt cells within the 8 years of owning the pool. I just contributed it to the cost of salt pools. Apparently, these should last 5-7 years. 2 SWGs were Hayward and the rest were generic brands which typically get great reviews. Current SWG, Blue Works T15 is on its way out again, only reading 1900 salt and not generating. This cell is only 14 months old.
Click to expand...

You are running your cell 13 hours/day at 45% about 300 days a year. That is about 2,000 hours/year of generation time.

Hayward cells last 6,000-10,000 hours. Generic cells last less. Cleaning with MA reduces the cell life further.

In your area cells will not last 5-7 years. I wouldexpect a new Hayward cell to last 3-5 years if well taken care of.

lojac963 said:
I have previously checked everything including the thermistor on the Hayward board. I even bought a new board and replaced mine to no avail so put the old board back in and kept the new board for the future. There are no typical tell tail signs of anything on the board itself causing issues from what I've read here and online through troubleshooting the board.
Click to expand...

Nothing points to your board being a problem.

lojac963 said:
The ONLY thing I can think of which is killing my SWGs I just read yesterday the pump and salt system should be on dedicated power feeds. Well, mine is not, power comes into the Aquarite box which pigtails to the board then continues onto the pump. Do you think any spikes from the pump turning on could be killing the cells? Is there enough safety built into the board to prevent that? I'm tempted to just pull a dedicated feed for the pump and see what happens.
Click to expand...

SWGs are usually wired to the same power feed as the pump. "Spikes" from the pump are not a factor.

lojac963 said:
Cell is always routinely cleaned with MA. I was originally using a 4:1 ratio of water/MA but read that can impact plate life so I started doing even less MA yet the cells still don't last.
Click to expand...

Cleaning with MA removes the rare eaths that make the cell function and reduce ist life.

lojac963 said:
Also read that the SWG should be mounted vertically with VS pumps, is that something I should do? It's horizontal and I keep the belly of it towards the ground so the plates are hopefully covered while the pump is in low mode.
Click to expand...

Pentair recommends IntelliChlor cells be mounted vertically for maximum efficiency.

Hayward cells should be mounted horizontally with the hump down.

lojac963 said:
Here's system info while pump is running:

4200
91
26.6
5.76
45P
-4300
AL-0
r1.59
T-5 (cell is actually a T15)
Click to expand...

That is not very meaningful with the T-5 hack.

When you start running a new cell post the diagnostics and let's see the way it is operating.
 
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Rancho Cost-a-Lotta said:
I forgot to comment on this. I have not seen this recommendation. It is recommended that the cell be mounted with the hump down when used with vs pumps, as you mentioned. Can you point to the source of the information?
Click to expand...
I've only seen it twice, one thread was on this forum but it was about an above ground pool. However the replies told the OP to just mount the cell horizontal. The other place was on a pool subreddit. Again, just grasping at possibilities to prolong cell life
 
ajw22 said:
You are running your cell 13 hours/day at 45% about 300 days a year. That is about 2,000 hours/year of generation time.

Hayward cells last 6,000-10,000 hours. Generic cells last less. Cleaning with MA reduces the cell life further.

In your area cells will not last 5-7 years. I wouldexpect a new Hayward cell to last 3-5 years if well taken care of.



Nothing points to your board being a problem.



SWGs are usually wired to the same power feed as the pump. "Spikes" from the pump are not a factor.



Cleaning with MA removes the rare eaths that make the cell function and reduce ist life.



Pentair recommends IntelliChlor cells be mounted vertically for maximum efficiency.

Hayward cells should be mounted horizontally with the hump down.



That is not very meaningful with the T-5 hack.

When you start running a new cell post the diagnostics and let's see the way it is operating.
Click to expand...
Awesome info, thank you.

I have slowly been decreasing the amount of MA in the acid bath but then I read about using a 6% cleaning vinegar as opposed to MA. Any recommendations for cell cleaning to get away from MA? I realize the readings aren't helpful with running the T-5 hack.
 
ajw22 said:
Read SWG How It Works - Further Reading

Start with the least destructive methods first and work up.

How visible is the scale when you clean the cell?
Click to expand...
I've been reading those large posts but didn't get that far.

The scale is never terrible, there may be a few concentrated deposits but the plates are usually fairly clean. That being said, in that article is says a 10:1 acid back will even etch the ruthenium. There are so many recommendations on ratios and I have always used much higher than 10:1. My plan is to follow that article on here, as you mentioned, least destructive first. I will try anything at this point to get more life out of these cells. Thanks again for your help and to the other posters, thank you.
 
lojac963 said:
New member, first post. Glad to be here.
I will try to provide as much background as possible for everyone.

Pool is 14k gallon, Pebbletec, Hayward components/Aquarite salt system, VS pump running high for 5 hours then low for 8 hours, in floor cleaning, cyclone pre-filter (I will add all my pool info to my signature)

I consider myself fairly competent in electrical and maintaining my own pool. Some backstory, chemistry is generally always in check with the exception of calcium given our ridiculously hard water where I am at. This includes salt level which is currently 3800 tested by Taylor drop kit.

We have gone through I believe 4-5 salt cells within the 8 years of owning the pool. I just contributed it to the cost of salt pools. Apparently, these should last 5-7 years. 2 SWGs were Hayward and the rest were generic brands which typically get great reviews. Current SWG, Blue Works T15 is on its way out again, only reading 1900 salt and not generating. This cell is only 14 months old.

I have previously checked everything including the thermistor on the Hayward board. I even bought a new board and replaced mine to no avail so put the old board back in and kept the new board for the future. There are no typical tell tail signs of anything on the board itself causing issues from what I've read here and online through troubleshooting the board.

The ONLY thing I can think of which is killing my SWGs I just read yesterday the pump and salt system should be on dedicated power feeds. Well, mine is not, power comes into the Aquarite box which pigtails to the board then continues onto the pump. Do you think any spikes from the pump turning on could be killing the cells? Is there enough safety built into the board to prevent that? I'm tempted to just pull a dedicated feed for the pump and see what happens.

When the salt cells are new there are no issues whatsoever, they just do not last. Current cell is a Blue Works T15 which is only 14 months old and failing as mentioned above. As I read here, I changed the Aquarite system to a T5 and now it is reading a salt level of 3100 and generating without issue.

Cell is always routinely cleaned with MA. I was originally using a 4:1 ratio of water/MA but read that can impact plate life so I started doing even less MA yet the cells still don't last. I read on here that a cleaning vinegar can be used as well so I'm going to move to that as well.

Also read that the SWG should be mounted vertically with VS pumps, is that something I should do? It's horizontal and I keep the belly of it towards the ground so the plates are hopefully covered while the pump is in low mode.

Here's system info while pump is running:

4200
91
26.6
5.76
45P
-4300
AL-0
r1.59
T-5 (cell is actually a T15)

Sorry for the ridiculous long post and info. I'm literally at a loss at this point. My wife wants me to just convert the pool to normal chlorine tablets, but I really don't want to at this point. Any help or suggestions is greatly appreciated. Thanks!
Click to expand...
You have to set it to 15 in settings.
 
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