Am I missing something here? New heater installation.

Alwayshad1

Active member
Oct 11, 2020
27
North central Florida
We are having a complete pool remodel with the addition of a pool/spa heater. The original setup had the newer large pump/filter on left operating pool suction and return, as well as a fountain return only. The older pump on right operated the suction and return of the fountain. However, because the pool pump also had a return to fountain, we shut the return from the spa pump to the fountain off, so that the spa feature would just circulate by itself and the return from the pool pump to fountain would create the overflow back to the pool. The only issue was there was no suction going on with the fountain unless we ran it thru the spa. They just hooked up this heater and so far a little confused. We wanted to be able to heat the spa or pool separately or both at the same time. They added a bunch of valves, etc . So I will describe what we have. On the far left by the pool pump filter you have the backwash pipe and at that corner is a pipe leading down into the ground which is the pool return. To the right you see pool suction valves. To the right of that you see spa and fountain suction valves and on the far right is the spa fountain return. I can visualize how they are getting the water into the heater from all points, but the only return from the heater is going back to the fountain return. Are they trying to heat the fountain first, then spillover into the pool, then get sucked up thru the spa? What’s up with this? Note there is no spa spillover just the waterfall spillover so to speak.
 

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ajw22

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Please post pics of your spa, the waterfall or spillover, and the fountain as I try to understand what you have. Your setup is non-standard to say the least.
 

ajw22

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Jul 21, 2013
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I see a big pool with stuff I can't see in the back.

Why do you need the fountain?

Why do you call what you have a waterfall and not a traditional spa spillover?

Why isn't your setup the way most pools with spillover spas are plumbed?
 

ajw22

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Jul 21, 2013
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Northern NJ
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Your main pool pump has three suction lines going into it. What are the 3 lines?

Your spa/fountain pump has two suction lines into it - spa suction and fountain suction?

Your fountain has a separate suction drain in it?
 
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ajw22

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Jul 21, 2013
23,630
Northern NJ
Pool Size
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Your basic problem is you are trying to maintain three bodies of water - pool, spa, and fountain - with a non-typical pool/spa setup. Whoever set this up did not correctly think through how each body of water is best maintained.

They put the fountain to be combined with the spa pump and filter.

Now you add a heater but you want the heater to crossover between the pool and the spa/fountain. They were not setup to cross over.

Each body of water needs a pump, filter, chlorination, and optionally a heater. The equipment can be switched by valves between one body of water and another. When the equipment is switched by valves when one body of water is active the other is dormant.

This should be redone with the pool and spa plumbing sharing the pump, filter and heater using valves to change between POOL mode and SPA mode. Your fountain should have a separate pump and filter system. Or do away with your fountain.
 
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Alwayshad1

Active member
Oct 11, 2020
27
North central Florida
I see a big pool with stuff I can't see in the back.

Why do you need the fountain?

Why do you call what you have a waterfall and not a traditional spa spillover?

Why isn't your setup the way most pools with spillover spas are plumbed?
Good morning,
I don’t “need” a fountain, this is how the original pool was built. We are retiling, resurfacing, and adding a heater. The spa does not spill over directly into the pool. The body of water next to it (let’s call this a fountain for purposes of explanation) does spill over into the pool. This fountain is currently connected to the spa thru one pump/filter and the pool/pump filter has a return line going to the fountain also. The way I have been using it is to run pool pump 8 hours with the return to the fountain on letting water gurgle out into the pool. There is no suction going on with the fountain only the return water from the pool. The spa pump kicks on for a couple of hours during which the fountain suction is off as always so the spa does not drain down. The spa suction and return are both wide open allowing for a lot of bubbles and just recirculating the spa water. What I want is a simple system that allows the pool and or the spa to be able to be heated either both at the same time or individually. The best way I can visualize this is to have normal pool suction/return connected with fountain suction/return on one pump/filter and spa suction/return connected to spa pump/filter. Both suction lines would tee into the heater with a valve to choose spa/pool/both and then the return line to have the same setup. Is this correct or practical? I also would need to tee off from the spa filter before heater to allow drainage/waste.
 
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Alwayshad1

Active member
Oct 11, 2020
27
North central Florida
Your main pool pump has three suction lines going into it. What are the 3 lines?

Your spa/fountain pump has two suction lines into it - spa suction and fountain suction?

Your fountain has a separate suction drain in it?
1. Skimmer, main drain, vacuum
2. Yes
3. It has a suction and return line thru the spa pump and then an additional return line coming from the pool pump filter.
 

Alwayshad1

Active member
Oct 11, 2020
27
North central Florida
Your basic problem is you are trying to maintain three bodies of water - pool, spa, and fountain - with a non-typical pool/spa setup. Whoever set this up did not correctly think through how each body of water is best maintained.

They put the fountain to be combined with the spa pump and filter.

Now you add a heater but you want the heater to crossover between the pool and the spa/fountain. They were not setup to cross over.

Each body of water needs a pump, filter, chlorination, and optionally a heater. The equipment can be switched by valves between one body of water and another. When the equipment is switched by valves when one body of water is active the other is dormant.

This should be redone with the pool and spa plumbing sharing the pump, filter and heater using valves to change between POOL mode and SPA mode. Your fountain should have a separate pump and filter system. Or do away with your fountain.
Am I missing something on this setup? I get the first part but If I run fountain on a separate system, water gets sucked in from fountain body of water and spills out into pool body of water. How does that water then get returned back to fountain body of water?
 
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ajw22

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TFP Guide
Jul 21, 2013
23,630
Northern NJ
Pool Size
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Show me a picture of the spa.

Show me a picture of the “fountain “.

Show in pictures where the spa suction and spa return and fountain returns are located.

Show me pictures where the water flows from the spa to the fountain to the pool.
 

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Alwayshad1

Active member
Oct 11, 2020
27
North central Florida
Show me a picture of the spa.

Show me a picture of the “fountain “.

Show in pictures where the spa suction and spa return and fountain returns are located.

Show me pictures where the water flows from the spa to the fountain to the pool.
In the first picture I posted...438kb...the two valves on the far left controlled pool skimmer, main drain, and vacuum suction. The valve to the right of that controlled the spa and fountain suction, and the valve on the far right controlled the spa and fountain return. The spa is raised above pool level on the left in the picture I posted and the fountain is raised above that level to the right of the spa. The water does not flow from the spa to the fountain other than thru underground piping. Water that is returned to the waterfall from the pool return comes out of two pvc pipes from the bottom of the fountain floor and the water cascades over a cutout ledge in the wall of the waterfall. If I wanted water to come into the fountain from the spa I could do that by opening the suction side for the fountain, but that would suck water out of the spa, return it thru piping into the fountain and then that water would cascade over the ledge into the pool. However since I did not have a way to get pool water back into spa, I would lose that water permanently.
 

ajw22

Gold Supporter
TFP Guide
Jul 21, 2013
23,630
Northern NJ
Pool Size
35000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
I am sorry but I cannot help you if you cannot post the requested pictures. I do not fully understand the word salad you post and I need to see it to understand what you may not be seeing.

I gave you the clues to your problem in my posts above. You need need to figure out how to manage each body of water you have either with the same equipment or different equipment.

Consider redoing your plumbing and valves to the way most pool/spas switch at the suction and return valves.
 

Alwayshad1

Active member
Oct 11, 2020
27
North central Florida
I am sorry but I cannot help you if you cannot post the requested pictures. I do not fully understand the word salad you post and I need to see it to understand what you may not be seeing.

I gave you the clues to your problem in my posts above. You need need to figure out how to manage each body of water you have either with the same equipment or different equipment.

Consider redoing your plumbing and valves to the way most pool/spas switch at the suction and return valves.
I am sorry but I cannot help you if you cannot post the requested pictures. I do not fully understand the word salad you post and I need to see it to understand what you may not be seeing.

I gave you the clues to your problem in my posts above. You need need to figure out how to manage each body of water you have either with the same equipment or different equipment.

Consider redoing your plumbing and valves to the way most pool/spas switch at the suction and return valves.
 

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ajw22

Gold Supporter
TFP Guide
Jul 21, 2013
23,630
Northern NJ
Pool Size
35000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
Do I have the spa and fountain properly identified?

Now please point your camera down into the spa and fountain and show me pics of the floor and sides of each showing the suction and returns in each.

How deep is the spa? Does it have benches to sit on?

How deep is the fountain? Does it have benches to sit on?

alwayshadfountain.jpeg

alwayshadspa.jpeg
 

Alwayshad1

Active member
Oct 11, 2020
27
North central Florida
Yes they are identified correctly. They asked me not to walk on the tile yet so I can not post inside pictures. The spa has bench type seating and is maybe 3 feet deep best I can remember. It has about four return jets in the walls above the seats and several holes in the seats thru which the blower is supposed to operate. There is a suction opening on the bottom floor . The fountain has a suction opening on the bottom floor and two pvc pipes that extend up from the floor as returns. It is about two feet deep to the lip of the cut out. There are no benches to sit on in the fountain.
 
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ajw22

Gold Supporter
TFP Guide
Jul 21, 2013
23,630
Northern NJ
Pool Size
35000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
I think you should build a spillover in your spa during your renovation. Then the pool and spa can operate together independant of the fountain.