Air bubbles under the lid

jan verbeem

Active member
May 26, 2016
39
Brussels
As I had to replace the gear shaft seal from my pump. I had to redo the suction side of the tubing, since the pump is in such an awkward position that I had to remove it to repair.

All tubing is glued, though I get some small air bubbles under the lid.

Nothing that much to really worry about, though the strange thing is that they are not constant, but they come in flurries every 30 seconds or so, and then last for about 10 seconds or so.

I would have thought that if there is a leak at the suction side, you would have the bubbles constantly.

Does this sound familiar to someone or can someone explain what the most likely cause is?
 

IMissNimoy

Gold Supporter
Jul 3, 2018
56
SC
Do you have a circular weir? This happened after my Ecostar was replaced under warranty. I assume the the new pump was better somehow and the circular weir bounced in the housing. This caused it to ingest air then "burp" it into the pump basket. Simply pulling more flow from the main drains solved my issue.
 

jan verbeem

Active member
May 26, 2016
39
Brussels
Do you have a circular weir? This happened after my Ecostar was replaced under warranty. I assume the the new pump was better somehow and the circular weir bounced in the housing. This caused it to ingest air then "burp" it into the pump basket. Simply pulling more flow from the main drains solved my issue.
Sorry I'm not English native, so I don't know what a circular weir is, and google also doesn't make me much wiser when I look it up.

Fact is the pump is 8 years old and didn't have these bubbles prior to replacing the gear shaft seal.

The pump usually runs on skimmer and vacuum, and enabling the main drain as third source doesn't make a difference.

The pump is a 1.5Hp Hayward Super II connected to a 28" hayward filter and all tubing is 2"
 

kimkats

Mod Squad
LifeTime Supporter
Jul 10, 2012
42,519
Tallahassee, FL
Weir is the door at the pool side of the skimmer (thing the water comes from the pool to the pump). It opens and shuts to help pull the stuff into the skimmer to the filter.
 

jan verbeem

Active member
May 26, 2016
39
Brussels
Weir is the door at the pool side of the skimmer (thing the water comes from the pool to the pump). It opens and shuts to help pull the stuff into the skimmer to the filter.
Thanks for the explanation, yes the skimmer has a weir, but I don't think that is the issue, because enabling 3 feeds doesn't make a difference
 

IMissNimoy

Gold Supporter
Jul 3, 2018
56
SC
Sorry I'm not English native, so I don't know what a circular weir is, and google also doesn't make me much wiser when I look it up.

Fact is the pump is 8 years old and didn't have these bubbles prior to replacing the gear shaft seal.

The pump usually runs on skimmer and vacuum, and enabling the main drain as third source doesn't make a difference.

The pump is a 1.5Hp Hayward Super II connected to a 28" hayward filter and all tubing is 2"
Do you have this? The top part is the circular weir.
1581776239963.png
 

kimkats

Mod Squad
LifeTime Supporter
Jul 10, 2012
42,519
Tallahassee, FL
Do you have this? The top part is the circular weir.
1581776239963.png
@IMissNimoy talk to me more about this please! I have never seen anything like this and would love to learn more about it please!

@jan verbeem I am guessing what really needs to be looked at is the repair you just did. All things seems to be pointing to it as being the cause. I would think about taking another look to make sure there is nothing wrong inside the area worked on.
 

jan verbeem

Active member
May 26, 2016
39
Brussels
@jan verbeem I am guessing what really needs to be looked at is the repair you just did. All things seems to be pointing to it as being the cause. I would think about taking another look to make sure there is nothing wrong inside the area worked on.
Obviously the problem started when I redid the tubing, although it is exactly the same as before.

Like I said the bubbles are really that small and infrequent that they don't worry me, the only reason for my thread is, why are they infrequent.

I take that if there is a joint or valve that's has an air leak, the bubbles will be constant, but in this case they only appear every 30 seconds or so, and then it are 2 or 3 clouds of very tiny bubbles right after each other
 

Texas Splash

Mod Squad
TFP Expert
LifeTime Supporter
Jan, your issues certainly might be related to the recent work. Often times when a problem starts after a repair, it makes sense to go back to that repair. However, before you go tearing things apart, I figured I'd mention something else just in case. Now I don't see the details of your pool and equipment in you signature (please update), but in my set-up, I find that when my filter starts to get dirty, my pump strainer pot water level gets a little lower and I start to see champagne-sized bubbles from the return jets. Kind of in bursts, but tiny bubbles. Once I clean my filter, they go away. Might be worth checking.
 

jan verbeem

Active member
May 26, 2016
39
Brussels
Jan, your issues certainly might be related to the recent work. Often times when a problem starts after a repair, it makes sense to go back to that repair. However, before you go tearing things apart, I figured I'd mention something else just in case. Now I don't see the details of your pool and equipment in you signature (please update), but in my set-up, I find that when my filter starts to get dirty, my pump strainer pot water level gets a little lower and I start to see champagne-sized bubbles from the return jets. Kind of in bursts, but tiny bubbles. Once I clean my filter, they go away. Might be worth checking.
The water in my strainer is full to the lid, and there are no bubbles in either my chlorinator cell or from the return lines.

I like you wording of the champagne sized bubbles, as that is actually a good way to describe what I see under the lid, and I think that because they are that small they don't make it past the filter.

I have a few bends in the suction pipe, and the tubing is elevated at the start then comes down to the pump, so I actually wonder if it can be cavitation that creates air pockets that are released when they become a certain size.
 

Texas Splash

Mod Squad
TFP Expert
LifeTime Supporter
I like you wording of the champagne sized bubbles, as that is actually a good way to describe what I see under the lid, and I think that because they are that small they don't make it past the filter.
Ahhh. I see. That is a slightly different scenario than mine. My dirty filter does create a kind of back-up of water in the strainer pot, creating more agitation of the water and potential for those bubbles. But your situation may be different. Along with updating your signature with all of your pool equipment, you might consider posting a pic of your equipment pad. Pictures sometimes help. One of our pump/hydraulic experts like @mas985 or @JamesW may have other thoughts about the tiny bubbles that only seemed to occur after you replaced the shaft seal and some suction plumbing.
 
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ajw22

Gold Supporter
TFP Guide
Jul 21, 2013
11,701
Northern NJ
Is your equipment pad above or below the pool water level?

How long has it been since you since you fixed your pump?

What is your pump run schedule?

I would not go tearing into things for that minor a problem.
 

jan verbeem

Active member
May 26, 2016
39
Brussels
Is your equipment pad above or below the pool water level?

How long has it been since you since you fixed your pump?

What is your pump run schedule?

I would not go tearing into things for that minor a problem.
My pump is at pool water level an right at the pool, but as I said the feeds are elevated about 80 centimeter, then go down to the pump.

I had to do this because there ar 2 pumps in front of the filter pump, so I had to go over them with the tubing.

My pump runs 3 hours in the morning and 4 hours at night time.

I have no intention to tear things apart, as i don't worry about the amount of bubbles, I only try to figure out why they come with about 30 seconds pauses.

Edit to add : The pump was fixed and put into position only a few days ago
 
Last edited:

IMissNimoy

Gold Supporter
Jul 3, 2018
56
SC
@IMissNimoy talk to me more about this please! I have never seen anything like this and would love to learn more about it please!

@jan verbeem I am guessing what really needs to be looked at is the repair you just did. All things seems to be pointing to it as being the cause. I would think about taking another look to make sure there is nothing wrong inside the area worked on.
Mine is a Pentair Admiral floating weir. The flap weir is removed. It's similar to some of the vortex basket products I've seen. I'm not sure if it's any better than a flap door/standard basket set up. Too much suction to the skimmer causes the floating weir to bounce and ingest air. It will occasionally get stuck in the up position by a stick. I've considered adding a door and standard basket to see if I notice any difference but it's been low on my project priority list.
 
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jan verbeem

Active member
May 26, 2016
39
Brussels
Mine is a Pentair Admiral floating weir. The flap weir is removed. It's similar to some of the vortex basket products I've seen. I'm not sure if it's any better than a flap door/standard basket set up. Too much suction to the skimmer causes the floating weir to bounce and ingest air. It will occasionally get stuck in the up position by a stick. I've considered adding a door and standard basket to see if I notice any difference but it's been low on my project priority list.
I actually have no basket in my skimmer, because it broke a few years ago when I tried to take it out, and my pool is in a position that I get very little debris.

I was told that in that case the basket in the skimmer is not very important as long as you have the basket in the pump.
 

JamesW

TFP Expert
Mar 2, 2011
16,978
Get down near the pump and have someone turn the pump off.

When the pump is turned off, you get a brief period where the suction turns to pressure as the filter depressurizes.

When that happens, you can sometimes get a squirt of water at any suction leaks.
 

jan verbeem

Active member
May 26, 2016
39
Brussels
Get down near the pump and have someone turn the pump off.

When the pump is turned off, you get a brief period where the suction turns to pressure as the filter depressurizes.

When that happens, you can sometimes get a squirt of water at any suction leaks.
I have checked the tubing from the pump connection to the ball valves several times with my bare hands right after the pump is switched off, and can't detect a wet spot anywhere.

There also doesn't suck any air in the pump when or after it is switched off, and lastly my pumphouse is tiled with white tiles, so a single drop of water would be detected.