Access issue pointed out after deposit

[stephywephy88]

I signed for a fiberglass pool with a reputable builder. Contract was detailed and what I expected after going back and forth with sales/project designer. Gave 15% deposit ($15k) and the shell was ordered. The site supervisor came out a week later and told me I didn’t have sufficient access to drive the shell into my backyard and unless my neighbor signed a waiver to cross part of their property, I’d need a crane and use of smaller machinery that will have “astronomical” costs. Shouldn’t this have been mentioned in any of the previous conversations so I could talk to my neighbor BEFORE signing? The contract does state that buyer must provide 20’ feet access - I assumed I met this since the project designer didn’t point it out when I gave him my survey. I’m hopeful my neighbor obliges, but I wish I wasn’t already this stressed two weeks into an 8-month build

Thanks for letting me rant. Let’s hope my next post is a pool photo

 

[Texas Splash]

That's a tough one. Our FG install contracts usually address access points and the potential to lift a shell over structures and such. It wouldn't surprise me if this designer or salesman all turn their head and point back to what's in writing. Very frustrating I'm sure. But if you are reliant on your neighbor, hopefully they will be understanding about it all. Maybe butter them up with their favorite spirits or an offer to do some cannonballs once installed.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Are there any barriers (fences) or landscaping in the neighbors yard? Does anything need to be removed and replaced?

Whatever is there, let the neighbor know that his yard will be returned to its previous condition as soon as the project is complete and that you will cover any costs associated with that. Fixing up some landscaping or replacing a fence will be A LOT cheaper than trying to crane a fiberglass shell over the house.

However, you might call around and get quotes from crane companies to see what they would charge. Sometimes builders seriously inflate the charges for heavy equipment so as to discourage their use OR make you pay a hefty premium for the extra work it takes to schedule it. It may be way more complicated to manage two projects like that and the builder might balk at you choosing and paying the crane operator directly but if the neighbor doesn’t yield, I would be prepared to have that conversation.

I would also send an email directly to the pool company owner documenting this screwup and the fact that at no time in the initial proposal phase we’re you told of the access requirement or that it was not properly measured prior to signing. That way you establish the timeline and cause for future legal action if it is required. A certified letter to the pool builder would be best.

Good luck with the neighbors and bring homemade cookies with you …

 

[Toxophilite]

I'm surprised they worked off a site plan only. Those don't show fences or trees or add-ons. Every bid we got, which were quite a few over a couple of years shopping and deciding, the first step was the PB's own site assessment. It would be a given that a site visit was warranted if they didn't see 20' clearance on your lot alone. Hopefully, it's only overhang over unimproved area of neighbor's.

 

[stephywephy88]

I'm surprised they worked off a site plan only. Those don't show fences or trees or add-ons. Every bid we got, which were quite a few over a couple of years shopping and deciding, the first step was the PB's own site assessment. It would be a given that a site visit was warranted if they didn't see 20' clearance on your lot alone. Hopefully, it's only overhang over unimproved area of neighbor's.

PB was at my home before I provided the survey. PLOT TWIST: my “neighbor” is an cramped suburban empty lot that’s been for sale since 2009 after a house fire, so 1000% unimproved area - but I also can’t bring it cookies or offer it cool cannonballs So that’s the good news. Bad news is I only met the owner once 11 years ago. Property line is marked off by shrubs and rebar pole sticking out of the ground, so it’s pretty obvious what land is mine (and ofc on the survey). I looked up the property owner’s tax records to find his home address and sent him a letter and waiver indicating I’d fix any damage, re-seed, fertilize, apply weed killer, and fill the odd lawn divets forming in his property. Fingers crossed he signs it and makes life easier for the both of us. I also wrote “agreement null and void” if he manages to sell the property, develops it, or it goes under contract. Win/win, I would think.

 

[TX2OBX]

This is an unfortunate oversight by the builder and they have handed you the bag so to speak. I was in almost the exact same situation, neighboring lot has been vacant for the last 20 years. Sold and resold so many times and literally went up for sale again this week. I got a signed "permission slip" in February of this year to use their lot for access and to bring the shell in. Fast forward to last week and about an hour into them setting up the crane the HOA called to say they had a complaint from the neighbor and why am I using the property without permission. Sold from the time I asked to the actual D day so to speak. I asked forgiveness than permission. Not always the best thing but in this instance especially when owners are hard to get ahold of. Thats what id do, if anyone builds a house it will be far more "damaging" to the land than moving a pool. Failing that id try and negotiate the builder craning it over your house, I can't imagine it would cost that much more than the crane needed to pick up the shell off the trailer and put it in the ground.

 

[JamesW]

The contract does state that buyer must provide 20’ feet access

How much access can you provide without the neighbor?

Why didn't you measure the access as you knew it would be an issue?

The builder is responsible for making sure that things like access etc. are correct before agreeing to the contract since this is their business and they should know that they need to check these things.

So, they are either lazy, incompetent or dishonest by taking your deposit and then telling you about a significant issue that should be obvious to them as they have to deal with it literally every single time.

It's a scumbag move to get the deposit and then begin to tell you these types of things.

In my opinion, if you can't get permission and the cost is going to be a lot higher, you would have the right to cancel and get your money back.

Of course, they probably won't agree and then it's a fight.

How much more will the job cost if you can't get permission?

Are you willing to pay the higher cost or would you want to cancel the contract and get your money back?

 

[JamesW]

PLOT TWIST: my “neighbor” is an cramped suburban empty lot that’s been for sale since 2009 after a house fire, so 1000% unimproved area

How much for the lot?

Maybe buy it and then you can do whatever you want.

Then you can resell it for a profit (hopefully).

Or, just pay them a small fee.

If it's just an empty lot, they really shouldn't care.

What about access on the opposite side?

 

[JoyfulNoise]

I agree. I think the builder is either inflating the crane cost/issue or trying to scare you into making a rash decision. My neighbor bought one of those 1,200 gallon swim spas and they literally had to crane it from his front yard over his house and into the final resting spot clear across his back patio. This is literally hundreds of linear feet of distance with a huge crane out in the street. It took all of an hour to do, setup to driving away. When I asked my neighbor how much extra he had to pay for it, he told me that it was part of the install price and that the company that does the spas just has options for every situation. So if they’re folding the crane costs into their package installation deal, it can’t “astronomical “ sums of money. Crane costs are typically in the $100’s of dollars per hour range. And for a job like yours - moving a fiberglass shell - we’re not talking about a massive crane.

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[gingrbredman]

he told me that it was part of the install price

Around here, FG pool installs almost always have the price of the crane rolled into the total price of the pool. Something is going to be needed to get it off the truck anyway, and with a lot of newer subdivisions, and little access on the side yards, a lot of time the shell goes up and above the house. A skilled crane operator is not an astronomical cost. The "road permits" can be more costly in certain towns around here (crane/and/or flatbeds) than the rental of the crane itself.

 

[JamesW]

They might have issues getting in a backhoe or dump trucks.

In any case, access is the first thing they teach at pool builder school on the first day.

For them not to check this on the first consultation is ridiculous.

 

[JamesW]

The fact that they used the term “astronomical” is ridiculous.

If they do this all the time, they would know how much it costs to deal with limited access.

There are smaller backhoes and you can use a skid steer to move dirt from the back yard to the front.

So, it might cost a little bit more, but it should not be “astronomical”, whatever that means.

Maybe this?

 

[JamesW]

How well did you check them out?

What licenses are they required to have?

Did you verify that their General Contractor’s and Pool Builder’s licenses were valid and in good standing?

Did you check their reviews on all of the sites like Google?

Did you verify their liability and worker’s compensation insurance?

Are they bonded or required to be bonded?

If yes, how much is the bond?

Have you verified their bond?

Have you verified that their corporation is in good standing?

Have you checked their reviews and complaints on BBB?

 

[JoyfulNoise]

How well did you check them out?

What licenses are they required to have?

Did you verify that their General Contractor’s and Pool Builder’s licenses were valid and in good standing?

Did you check their reviews on all of the sites like Google?

Did you verify their liability and worker’s compensation insurance?

Are they bonded or required to be bonded?

If yes, how much is the bond?

Have you verified their bond?

Have you verified that their corporation is in good standing?

Have you checked their reviews and complaints on BBB?

'Give me a place to stand, a lever long enough and a fulcrum, and I can move the Earth' - Archimedes (circa … a long time ago)

 

[JamesW]

'Give me a place to stand, a lever long enough and a fulcrum, and I can move the Earth' - Archimedes (circa … a long time ago)

Assuming the lever and fulcrum are strong enough.

Craning ain’t no joke.

Things can go wrong in a hurry if the crane is overloaded or not operated properly by a skilled operator.

Note: Do not try to move a pool that has water in it.

Fill the pool after you get it set because the pool is heavier when it is full of water.

 

[stephywephy88]

I called my salesman and was reassured that there will be no extra costs and that we won’t be needing to crane over the house. That would be silly with open land next to me and the field supervisor is being…overly cautious. I appreciate the attention to detail, but Dang, that was unnerving. If I can’t get the neighbor‘s signed waiver, they will just use the extra five feet needed and let me deal with any aftermath (if it’s even noticed before I can fix). I do know PB has built nice pools for our community for over 50 years so I should trust the process, to an extent ofc… I now learned to get information from multiple people before stressing out. Obligatory first meltdown, I suppose. I did read all through this forum for months before deciding on a PB and signing a contract so feel I’m well prepared for what is yet to come, so thanks for everything I’ve learned and continue to learn. Such an amazing resource that I’m glad I found via reddit before delving into purchase. I even know what SLAM stands for