About To Sign - Thoughts On Equipment??

Sep 10, 2018
9
Ajax
#1
Hey all!

Hoping to get your opinions on the proposed equipment before i sign the contract for our pool build. They will also be installing a waterfall.

We are located in Toronto, Canada and will be having a fiberglass 'Key West' Viking Pool (approx 7000 gal) installed in Spring.

The builder says we would not need to have the pool binded as there is no metal/stairs being used. Is this true? Any thoughts on this?

The pool builder has put the following equipment together. I tried to keep all equipment to Pentair to keep automation working nicely together based on recommendations in this forum:)
Pump: Pentair VS 3.00HP Intelliflo
Computer: Pentair EasyTouch 4
Salt Cell: Pentair Intellichlor
Pool Heater: Pentair Mastertemp 250000 BTU gas heater (he initially quoted a Ray Pak 266000BTU heater for the same price)
Screenlogic: Screenlogic 2
Cartridge Filter: Pentair Clean and Clear Plus
Lights: Pentair Globrites (he initially quoted FiberStar 12V LED Colorsmart bulbs). I requested Pentair lights to keep all equipment Pentair, but Globrites are apparently for shallow water and shelves. Builder says they will be fine in my pool as it is a relatively small one. Also, he says that the FiberStar lights that he quoted are much easier to replace than the Globrites. I asked him about Pentair Intellibrite 5G lights, but he seemed to downtalk them a little bit. I've read somewhere that we would need to have the pool binded if we use these ones. Any thoughts on light selection?

For backfill he wil be using 'hpb'.

Any suggestions/thoughts would be definitely appreciated.

Thanks!!!

Tom
 

jblizzle

Mod Squad
TFP Expert
LifeTime Supporter
May 19, 2010
41,197
Tucson, AZ
#2
Switch back to the RayPak heater. It will still work with the automation and is more recommended by members of the forum.
What size SWG?
What size filter?

You still need bonding of all the surrounding ground/decking and the water ... and any metal within 5 feet of the water.
 

JamesW

TFP Expert
Mar 3, 2011
12,674
#3
Ontario's electrical safety code guidelines for pool/spa installations - Pool Spa Marketing

Rule 68-058 establishes requirements for an equipotential bonding plane for the metal parts of a pool and associated metal parts of non-electrical equipment and non-current carrying metal parts of electrical equipment with a copper bonding conductor that is

a minimum No.6 AWG for permanently installed pools, or as per Table 16 for all other pools
bonded at a minimum of four connection points around the perimeter of pool reinforcing steel (for non-conductive encapsulated steel, alternate means of eliminating voltage gradients must be made) bonded to at least one location for continuous bolted or welded together metal panel pools a separate bonding conductor from metal sheaths and raceways, run from the panel board to a junction box with a minimum No.6 AWG or installed and mechanically protected in the same manner as the circuit conductors

Guide to the Canadian Electrical Code, Part I — Instalment 34
 
Sep 10, 2018
9
Ajax
#4
Thank you both for the responses! Not sure of the filter and SWG sizes; the links are what i got from the PB:/ But i will email him back and ask.

As well, would the bonding requirement change as the pool is fibreglass? The electrical code speaks of 'pool reinforcing steel' which i imagine is in reference to steel/liner pools?

Thoughts?
 

martuned

Well-known member
Sep 15, 2016
47
Los Angeles
#5

JamesW

TFP Expert
Mar 3, 2011
12,674
#6
Check with an electrician about the local electrical code.

Even if you're not required to bond, you should do so anyway for safety.
 

jblizzle

Mod Squad
TFP Expert
LifeTime Supporter
May 19, 2010
41,197
Tucson, AZ
#7
Well, any of the SWG cells should be plenty big for your pool, even the smallest IC20

You filter size should be at least 100 sqft based on your pool size. But, that pump is VERY big and could easily overpower the filter if it is too small.
If you go this route, make sure the maximum / prime speed of the Intelliflo is dialed way down.

And yes you should bond. I believe it was a fiberglass pool that had a thread about people being shocked in the pool because it was not properly bonded (in addition to another problem that was introducing current, SWG maybe?).
 

Jimrahbe

Mod Squad
TFP Expert
LifeTime Supporter
Jul 7, 2014
10,214
Bedford, TX
#8
Tom,

Makes sure your Easytouch (ET) is NOT a lite version ET.. The ET you want will have a load center for all of your circuit breakers, as well as a built in power supply for your salt cell.

Thanks,

Jim R.
 
Sep 10, 2018
9
Ajax
#10
Thank you all for your thoughts and feedback.

I have asked the PB to confirm we are not using the Lite ET, and to confirm SWG and filter sizes.

He said he wanted to go with a larger pump because it would be operating the pool and waterfall. Given that we will not always be operating both at once, should i ask what the cost difference would be for 2 smaller pumps?

As well, any thoughts on the lights? I've been so torn and stuck on this decision as it is so hard to change after the fact:|

Thanks again all!
 

jblizzle

Mod Squad
TFP Expert
LifeTime Supporter
May 19, 2010
41,197
Tucson, AZ
#11
The pump will integrate will into your automation. If you are going to run the waterfall and pool jets at the same time, then it needs to be sized for that. The cost difference in the grand scheme of things is probably not significant. Just be sure the filter is size large enough for the highest flow rates that might be required
 
Sep 10, 2018
9
Ajax
#12
Hey all, I asked the PB questions that came for your guys questions/feedback. He responded with:
The salt generator would be an IC20
The size of the filter would be an SD60
I am not sure why or what you would bond to as bonding of a pool is done to steel and would be done by the electrician.
The Easy touch is not the Lite Version. It is the other version that has the subpanel built into it.

Any thoughts on the filter or SWG size, or his comment suggesting bonding is not needed for fiberglass pools?

Also, any comments/suggestions on the lights?

TIA!
 

Dirk

Gold Supporter
TFP Guide
Nov 13, 2017
4,375
Central California
#13
I'm just learning about bonding, but I believe you'd want to bond the water, any metal within 5' of your pool, in or out of the water, including ladders, lights, etc, and any concrete decking surrounding the pool: solid, paver, even dirt or grass. And then that connects to the pad and all its components.

Bonding is a science and needs to be performed by someone that knows how to do it, and inspected by someone that knows what it's supposed to look like.
 

jblizzle

Mod Squad
TFP Expert
LifeTime Supporter
May 19, 2010
41,197
Tucson, AZ
#14
First post said cartridge filter. The sd60 is a sand filter. Which do you want?

SWG size should be fine.

Bonding is extremely important. This alone would make me reconsider the builder.
 
Sep 10, 2018
9
Ajax
#15
Hey guys,

Thanks again for the above feedback. I'm still working with a couple pool builders hoping to find the 'right' one.

So here is the latest equipment slated for the build (Pool size: 12x24 fiberglass, ~7,000 gallons)

Pump: Pentair VS 3.00HP Intelliflo (the purpose of getting a more powerful pump is that we will get a waterfall installed at a later point. Is there risk that this will overpower the filter, or could i control it by using the 'variable' nature of the pump?
Computer: Pentair EasyTouch 4 (PSL4)
Salt Cell: Pentair Intellichlor (IC20)
Pool Heater: Pentair Mastertemp 250000 BTU gas heater (460732 NG)
Screenlogic: Screenlogic 2
Cartridge Filter: Pentair Clean and Clear 240
Lights: Fiber Star 12 V LED Bulb Color Smart

Other items listed in quote:
Tigre Flex 1.5" Flex hose x6
Outside Drain: 8" PVC
Concrete sub-collar: 25 mp with fibre

Any thoughts or changes you would make to the above?

TIA!

Tom:)
 

Jimrahbe

Mod Squad
TFP Expert
LifeTime Supporter
Jul 7, 2014
10,214
Bedford, TX
#16
Tom,

See posts 8 and 9.. An EasyTouch with an "L" in the model number is a lite version.. You can't say you were not warned... :p

You want an Easytouch with built-in SWCG power supply...

You can't have a VS pump that is too big... !!!

Thanks,

Jim R.
 
Sep 10, 2018
9
Ajax
#17
Tom,

See posts 8 and 9.. An EasyTouch with an "L" in the model number is a lite version.. You can't say you were not warned... :p

You want an Easytouch with built-in SWCG power supply...

You can't have a VS pump that is too big... !!!

Thanks,

Jim R.
Woah - you're right. I asked the PB to make sure it wasnt a lite version and said it wasnt. Then provided the part number, and... there it is. Thank you for catching that:)

Are you saying i shouldnt use that big of a VS pump and use it at lower speeds? The intention would be to get larger to handle the pool and eventual waterfall...

Ok - what size/model VS pump would you recommend?

Cheers!

Tom:)
 

Jimrahbe

Mod Squad
TFP Expert
LifeTime Supporter
Jul 7, 2014
10,214
Bedford, TX
#18
Tom,

Sorry I was not clear... A large VS pump works, no matter what size pool you have.. VS pumps should be called variable horsepower pumps, because that is what they really are.. You just use the amount of HP you need. I believe that the IntelliFlo pump is the "Gold Standard" of pool pumps. That said, make absolutely that you do not get the SVRS option..

It could be that the pool builder gave you an incorrect model number... To know for sure you need the actual Part Number of the EasyTouch.

Thanks,

Jim R.