A newbie DIY pool build

Butcher

LifeTime Supporter
Aug 13, 2010
112
Hello all,
Awesome site with lots of info.

I will be building my first in-ground vinyl liner pool. I became a TFP supporter so hopefully I can attach lots of pics to document the build and any pitfalls. As I stated in another post I am an excavator by trade with 27 years experience and have dug just about everything but this will be my first pool excavation. As this is my first pool build and doing it myself any input or help I can get would be greatly appreciated.

I thought I would start by listing the pool size and equipment I was planning to use. I live in a cold winter climate.

Pool: 14X28 (10,000 gal) hump back kidney 3ft-5ft with front mount two track cantilever coping
Spa: 92" spill over
Liner: Vinyl 30mil
pump: Hayward 1 hp super II for pool circ. and Hayward 1.5hp super II for spa booster.
Filter: Cartridge- Hayward Swim Clear 425sqft
Heater: Hayward H series 250,000 BTU Natural Gas for quick heat up of spa and longer swimming pool season
Solar heater: Sungrabber panels at about 30 feet high from the pump (walk out basement) south west facing.
Chlorination: T-cell
Water features: Hayward 1hp super II for two Deck jets and waterfall.
Plumbing: two skimmers, two return jets in the pool and 2 jets in the fiberglass steps.
Solar cover: yes
Winter cover: either fitted or safety cover.
Robotic Cleaner: Hayward AquaVac robotic
Control: Pro-logic PS8

Feel free to offer any suggestions.
 
G

Guest

My quick .02:

The pump is way too big! Look for a smaller pump, 2 speed pump or multi speed pump. Nobody (well, almost nobody!) needs a 2 HP circulation pump!

Yes, dedicated water feature pump. Don't make one pump do "double duty". Let the circ pump circulate the water and let the water feature pump do its thing when you want to see that going.

That's what I got! Hope it helps :cheers:
 

Butcher

LifeTime Supporter
Aug 13, 2010
112
simicrintz said:
My quick .02:

The pump is way too big! Look for a smaller pump, 2 speed pump or multi speed pump. Nobody (well, almost nobody!) needs a 2 HP circulation pump!
Yes, dedicated water feature pump. Don't make one pump do "double duty". Let the circ pump circulate the water and let the water feature pump do its thing when you want to see that going.

That's what I got! Hope it helps :cheers:
Thanks for the reply
Yes I am unsure of pump sizes. I figured it had a long way up to go for the solar panels on the roof so I figured bigger is better. The two pumps I was thinking about were a two speed or a multi speed though. How many HP would you recommend?
 
G

Guest

A 10,000 gallon pool could easily be handled by a 3/4 HP pump (I don't like anything smaller, as I consider those to be water feature pumps only, but some disagree), and, depending on your solar run/height, it could handle that also. 1 1/2" or 2" pipe would also be beneficial for efficiency.

Here, we are required to use 2 speed/multi speed pumps by code, and single speed pumps for water features/spa jets/etc. only. You could get a 2 speed pump with a 1 HP high speed rating if you have a high roof (2 story, for example) or a long run and are concerned about the solar. I've built many solar pools with 3/4 HP pumps on single story homes in the past, and if the hydraulics are correct it is no problem.
 

Butcher

LifeTime Supporter
Aug 13, 2010
112
The solar panels will be about 30 feet above the pump (3 stories due to being a walkout basement.

Should I use one pump for the water features and spill over spa and one for the pool or one for both pool and spa and one for features?
Thanks again for the help.
 
G

Guest

The spa spillover is typically a function of the circ pump, and is water that is bypassed through the spa back to the pool. This way it purges the spa water and keeps the spa clean at the same time as it is doing the normal pool cleaning. If you leave the water feature pump as the water feature pump only, that allows you to use the water feature during either pool use or spa use, whereas if it was tied to the spa you would not be able to run the water feature when you were in spa mode (you would drain the spa down as the water went from the spa back to the pool).

30' is a pretty good rise. Check the head on the pump and how it applies to your plumbing runs/diameters. Different sized pipe, equipment, 90's, etc. all affect head. Somewhere on the page is some great reading (plumbing 101?) by mas985 (IIRC), and it is worth reading!
 

Butcher

LifeTime Supporter
Aug 13, 2010
112
The pump dedications seems to make sense. As for the the head looks like I have some reading and learning to do. Thanks for directing me to the right area.
 

duraleigh

Admin
Mod Squad
TFP Expert
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In The Industry
Apr 1, 2007
31,691
Sebring, Florida
Hey, Butcher,

The height of your solar panels will be reasonably irrelevant. The panels themselves offer a good deal of resistance to be accounted for but having them up high is virtually the same as having them on the ground.
 

Butcher

LifeTime Supporter
Aug 13, 2010
112
So it is more a case of how many panels not the height they are placed at then.
 

duraleigh

Admin
Mod Squad
TFP Expert
Platinum Supporter
LifeTime Supporter
In The Industry
Apr 1, 2007
31,691
Sebring, Florida
Yes.

While the pump has to "push" the water up to the top of your system, gravity is pulling the water back down as it returns to the pool.....pretty much canceling out any extra effort involved in getting it up there.

Each Panel then provides resistance or "head" because of the friction between the water and the piping within the panel. So, two panels would each provide the same resistance thereby doubling the total resistance.
 

Butcher

LifeTime Supporter
Aug 13, 2010
112
Yes, I never considered the return line acting as a siphon. Makes sense. So need to calculate the resistance of the panels then
 

solarboy

Well-known member
Aug 1, 2010
337
Europe
You need to take in to account priming the panels however. That seems a **** of a rise for a pool pump, which are normally designed for flow volume and not pressure. Although it is true that the panels will create this syphon effect you do initially need to "prime" them with water each time the system is initialised. I have read other posts where owners wanted to be able to turn the 2 speed pump to the high speed setting to prime but had problems trying to achieve this. Maybe one of the pumping experts will be forthcoming with some more reassurance.
I totally agree that a 2HP pump is way overkill.
 

Butcher

LifeTime Supporter
Aug 13, 2010
112
Well progress is moving along slowly. Spent the last week or so trying to figure out what to do with the concrete liner floor for the pool. I had started another thread here
post217733.html#p217733
but I will try to keep everything in one place from now on.
I am hoping to find a local contractor to do the pool floor and I will only do it myself as a last resort. I have been over it a million times but still think it might be best to leave it to an expert.

I have spent the last couple night marking out the pool on the lawn and trying to sort out the plumbing. Since the pool was an irregular shape and I was trying to fit it into a corner of the yard that was at about 140-150 deg. or so I figured the best way to see how it would fit was to spray the pool outline onto a tarp I bought from Home Depot and slide it around till I got the best fit.
 

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Butcher

LifeTime Supporter
Aug 13, 2010
112
I have now finalized the location and finished marking it out on the lawn but it got too dark to take any pics so I will do that tomorrow.

Since it was too dark to continue outside I resumed my work on the plumbing. After several hours of trying to figure out the best way to plumb the pool I finally came up with this...[attachment=0:zmplsk83]pool plumbing diagram.doc[/attachment:zmplsk83]

I decided to go with a three pump system. A 1 hp pump for the pool recirculation, solar panels and 2 pool returns and 2 step jets. A 1 1/2 hp spa booster pump and a 1 hp water feature pump for deck jets and a waterfall. The filter is a cartridge and the heater is natural gas.
 

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Stevereno

Well-known member
Aug 31, 2010
184
New Caney, TX 77357
Butcher said:
I have spent the last couple night marking out the pool on the lawn and trying to sort out the plumbing. Since the pool was an irregular shape and I was trying to fit it into a corner of the yard that was at about 140-150 deg. or so I figured the best way to see how it would fit was to spray the pool outline onto a tarp I bought from Home Depot and slide it around till I got the best fit.
Good thinking! :goodjob:
 

Butcher

LifeTime Supporter
Aug 13, 2010
112
Here is a picture of the retaining wall layout and the pool layout. A retaining wall will have to be used to raise the back and sides of the property to the elevation of the underside of the pool deck. Retaining wall height will be about 2'.
 

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