Hayward H400FDN Ignition Failure

[Eriky]

Hey everyone, I have a 3 year old Hayward H400FDN heater that all of the sudden started not working with the IF light flashing.

I have done some searches and cannot come up with anything. This model does not have a pilot light. My pool builder told me to look for spider webs, but when I open the panel I don't see any spider webs.

Can anyone offer me any suggestions of things to look for? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Here are a few pics of

 

[danpik]

Paul will be along sometime to offer soma assistance with this. I am in the middle of packing for a vacation so I am not sure how much help I will be. The spider nests that could be causing the problems will be found in the burner tubes. It also may be a burned out igniter or bad flame sensor

 

[ps0303]

Do you smell gas when it tries to light? Does it try to light at all? On this one you have an igniter and a flame sensor. Two separate components. If the units lights, but then goes out about 4 seconds or less, you probably have a flame sensor issue. If it never lights, probably a igniter issue. However, it could also be a bad igniter control board.

Go to this site and download the manual, if you don't have it. Page 44 talks about the igniter and the flame sensor. Pool Heaters Hayward Universal H-Series Low NOx

 

[Eriky]

Dan and Paul, thanks for the reply. I am not exactly clear when I smell gas, because it is not consistent, and, even when the heater was operating properly, when it would first fire up I would often smell gas for a few seconds after it fired up. I am pretty sure the unit is not lighting at all. Everything turns on, I see a fan running, I hear some clicking noises, but never a flame, than it stops, goes through this process a few times, and then stops and the service light comes on with an IF message.

I downloaded the manual and read page 44, would you recommend I take all of those parts off and look at them? If so, is there anything in particular I am looking for? I looked at Figure 31 and I kind of see the different parts and where they are, I am just not exactly sure how to go about troubleshooting which one of these is the problem.

At this point, if I could find a local technician, I would happily pay for one, however after reaching out to several on craigslist and some searches, I cannot find anyone who knows how to service this particular heater, or they just don't want to.

 

[Eriky]

So I just went out and looked at things again, I am pretty sure I smell gas when it's trying to ignite, I don't think it's ever igniting as I never hear the flame fire up like I usually do. So this leads me to think it's likely the igniter itself, would it make sense to try to buy a new igniter kit and replace that? Or is there something else I should check out first?

 

[ps0303]

On this unit if the igniter is bad, it's usually broken into pieces. Do you have a volt meter to test for some voltages? If so, you could disconnect the igniter and hook your volt meter up, turn the unit on and see if the igniter control board is sending the voltage down to the igniter. I would also want to check the voltage before replacing a broken igniter anyway just in case the board is sending a higher than normal voltage. It were and you replaced the igniter, it will just blow the new one and you are back to where you started.

From your second to last post, it sounds like the igniter is shot. Cycling without lighting is a general symptom of it.

 

[Eriky]

Paul, Yes, I have a multimeter so I can definitely test for voltages. Should I disconnect the ignitor connector to the board and test the voltages at the boards connector? Or is there a specific place on the ignitor itself I can test? I did not remove the ignitor, so I don't know if its broken, I did open the ignitor access panel and from what I could tell, it looked fine, but I would imagine if its broken its the piece that is inside the burner which I did not see yet.

Also, do you know what voltages I should see on this?

Thanks so much for your help, greatly appreciated!!

 

[ps0303]

You can test it right on the board where it connects. You should see 120V.

 

[Eriky]

So this is a bit strange. I went out with my multimeter this morning to take out and look at the ignitor itself, to see if it was broken, and also to check the voltage being sent to the ignitor itself. First I try to fire up the heater to make sure it is still not working, and the same thing happened as expected, cycles a few times, does not light, and IF comes up.

So I first remove the ignitor, it is not broken, but there is a white powder like substance on it, and the middle of it has a grayish appearance. I just wipe off as much as I can and clean it a bit, but it looks good otherwise.

I then remove the ignitor connector from the board, look at that, all looks fine to me.

So I put the ignitor back in, screw everything back down, turn the filter back on, gas back on and put the heater on pool mode so that I can try to read the voltage coming off the board. My thought was during the second cycle, I would remove the connector and try to catch the voltage.

Low and behold it lights up right away, and starts heating, and stays on for several minutes.

Hmmm, so I turn off the heater, wait about 15 minutes, try it again, and it fires right back up again, and stays on.

Now I am a bit puzzled, the only thing I really did was clean off the ignitor, and disconnect and reconnect the connector to the board, and it is now working again.

Does that make any sense, could the white powder on the ignitor have been the problem?

 

[ps0303]

That is a silicon nitrite igniter and you have to be careful with anything you do with it. You shouldn't touch it with your fingers as the oils from your skin can cause it to stop working. Very touch things they are. Not sure what the "white" substance was. I see that sometimes when I replace a broken one so maybe it just part of the break down process on those types of igniters.

 

[Eriky]

Ooops, I definitely did touch it with my fingers. Do you think I should buy a new one and just replace it, or have it on hand in case I need to replace it? They are not that expensive, and you only realize your heater is not working when you need it to work, so it might be good to have one on hand.

Thanks for your help on this Paul!

 

[ps0303]

If you can afford one, sure why not keep one on hand. Especially since the issue you just went thru. If it stopped working once, it could very well go out for good soon.

 

[Eriky]

Makes sense, I will buy one.Thanks again!

 

[Hayward Pool]

The silicone nitrate igniter is fairly hardy compared to the older ones that came on the IDL2. Touching them will not hurt. IF on a 3 year old heater normally means a plugged orifice (spider webs). Remove all the orifices and clean. Also check the inside of the burners for spider webs.

 

[Eriky]

The silicone nitrate igniter is fairly hardy compared to the older ones that came on the IDL2. Touching them will not hurt. IF on a 3 year old heater normally means a plugged orifice (spider webs). Remove all the orifices and clean. Also check the inside of the burners for spider webs.

This was what my pool builder told me as well, but its not clear to me how to remove the orifices or how to check the inside of the burner from the manual. Can you give me any insight into how I can do this?

 

[Eriky]

So it would not fire up again today, so I am assuming that it is the burner being clogged by webs. Can anyone tell me how to get access to this? The manual explains a process but I don't exactly understand they want me to do, and I just cannot find a local serviceman so I need to figure this out myself.

 

[ps0303]

Shut the gass off to the unit. Hopefully you have a union in the piping by the outside of the heater. Undo that union and un-thread the pipe from the gas valve. Once you have that done you can remove several screws that hold the burner tube that has the orifices in it. It just pulls right off and you have access to it.

 

[Hayward Pool]

Thanks ps0303 exactly what I would have responded with for help.

 

[Eriky]

So I have ruled out the ignitor, I bought a new one, replaced it and the problem still exists.

I then tried to undo the union and unthread the pipe from the gas valve. I guess I don't exactly even know how to undo the union. I tried turning the pipe that runs into the unit itself, which I am assuming that is not the union because there was no way I was budging that thing.

I am also assuming by unthreading the pipe into the gas valve, you are referring to the black pipe that runs into the bottom of the gas valve which runs down to the screws that you highlighted in the picture?

Can you give me any assistance on how to undo the gas valve? Here are some more pictures of what my setup looks like.

Again, the help is much appreciated, I have been trying for weeks to find a technician who can service this to no avail.

 

[ps0303]

Don't remove the gas valve. All you need to do it undo the union, takes two pipe wrenches. Once the union is open, you can then take your pipe wrench and put it on the pipe just outside the heater that is connected into the gas valve. You don't need to remove any of the other piping to get this out from the gas valve. One removed from the gas valve, remove the screws I showed you earlier and any others on the inside holding the manifold on. Once you do this, you will be able to just remove it all with the gas valve attached and then look at your orifices.